In Response To An Article In The Sikhchic.com.

[Riaz Gujjar]

Riaz Gujjar

If you consider Pakistani punjabi so brave then why Pak don't attack India directly instead of waging proxy war.In early 80s when Sikh Indian govt conflict was going on Indira Gandhi blamed Pakistan was planning atn attack on Indian Punjab to help sikhs, why didn't you attack India at that time ? may be with support of Sikhs you could had captured Indian punjab and Kashmir but you Pakistani Punjabi did not move out of your home.

Similarly you people call yourself greatest supporters of Kshmiri freedom fighters yet in 89-90 when Kashmiri's revolted in full scale you did not attack India.So stop trumpeting about your bravery. You just want to wage proxy war by killing innocent people like your Paki Kasab did in India.If you are brave just attack India directly or stop supporting Kashmiri Jihadi's

Edited May 16, 2014 by Riaz Gujjar

[Riaz Gujjar]

There is a massive difference between "becoming muslim" from Hindu as compared to becoming Sikh. The two communities were more or less ONE till late 19th century british sponsored shenanigans of Singh sabha and outrageous provocative back-to-the-roots acts of Arya Samajis.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Riaz Gujjar

[Riaz Gujjar]

There is one transparent agenda on this Gujjar's part - to divide and defeat Hindu and Sikh punjabis. But, unfortunately for him, the historic facts (Muslims always pitted against Sikhs and Hindus and vice versa) do not support his claims of camaraderie with Sikh separatists (forget everyday Sikh living in Indian Punjab, he would use expletives to let our delusioned friend know about his sentiments - unless Gujjar offers his sister as a part of the bargain ) .

Edited May 16, 2014 by Riaz Gujjar

[Riaz Gujjar]

Jehre PM bande, President bandde,economy nu control karde, Army Chief... o Ghulam nahin king kahande aa. Make a Sikh your President then India would have problems. I dare you.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Riaz Gujjar

[Riaz Gujjar]

Haryanvi Jats are not Punjabis. They are ethnically the same as Sikh and Muslim Jats but they speak Hindi so they cannot be classed as Punjabi Hindus. In fact they would consider being called Punjabi Hindus as an insult as in their areas the Punjabi Hindu is typically a Lala shopkeeper. There are Punjabi Jats in Haryana, the most recent being the Sikh Jats from Sheikhupura settled in Karnal. The oldest Punjabi Jat setters are the Jat Sikhs of Sirsa and Fatehabad who settled the lands after the Bhatti Muslims lost their independence to Patiala state in the 1780s.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Riaz Gujjar

[chatanga1]

Daaaayumm. Just when the topic gets really interesting, the OP seems to have deleted all his comments and left.

There is one transparent agenda on this Gujjar's part - to divide and defeat Hindu and Sikh punjabis. But, unfortunately for him, the historic facts (Muslims always pitted against Sikhs and Hindus and vice versa)

Another transparent agenda on this forum. Guess who's in front of the Gujjar?

Evan Jenkins did not dismiss the Unionist govt. It was in the face of Muslim league agitation against the govt and the statement by the British govt to pass the rule to responsible hands that made Sir Khizr Tiwana give his resignation. The ML did not have the the required majority to stake a claim to form a government in Punjab (75 seats out of 175), They made tall claims about being supported by the Christian and an Anglo-Indian MLA but never proved this by showing the Punjab governor anything in writing from them to show their support. Had they shown majority support there was nothing stopping them forming the govt of Punjab.

There was a Sikh plan just as there was a Muslim plan. The Sikh plan was to ensure the creation of a Sikh state but as this did not happen the next plan was that once partition boundaries had been announced then to evict the Muslims from East Punjab and hence ensure the creation of a Sikh majority area in East Punjab. The Muslim plan was to take over the lands and properties of the non-Muslims. Prior to the announcement of the partition boundary, over 500,000 Hindus and Sikhs had already moved from the Muslim majority districts to non-Muslims majority districts. There had been no such movement of Muslims in the opposite direction. According to Ishiaq Ahmed in his book this may have been one of the reasons why there was more Muslim deaths than non-Muslims deaths in 1947. So your comment about people not moving from West Punjab until August 1947 is not correct. The blueprint for the exchange of populations was already in place, it just needed the Sikhs to act to force the Muslims to move out of East Punjab.

Personally I beleive that Jenkins should have set down a time period for the ML to attempt to form a govt. Obviously they couldn't only having 75 seats out of 175, but it would have left them unable to claim that they were able to. If Jenkins had given them some days to prove themselves, it would have been better. They have used this argument since.

Reading Gujjars earlier posts, I thought he made some good observations, but claiming that people never moved from W Panjab until August is an outrageous lie. Sikhs esp had began to move from Rawalpindi Div in March in thousands and thousands.

As for the last line quoted above, it should read, "The blueprint for the exchange of populations was already in place, it just needed the Sikhs to REact to force the Muslims to move out of East Punjab. The muslims knew that if the Sikhs and Hindus weren't forced out, what would change in Pakistan? They still wouldn't own the lands/colleges/banks. So they got the ball rolling. Just like they did 5 months earlier.

Even a Pakistan newspaper printed as soon as the border was demarcated "Let no Sikh remain in Pakistan".

[kdsingh80]

Please do not tarnish proud Indian Sikhs' reputation by suggesting that they would have supported an enemy state. I am pretty sure, had an attack from Pak eventuated, Sikhs would have done everything to defend their turf valiantly. hypothetically speaking even if a part of the Punjab populace supports Muslim aggression, i do not think Pak army is capable of doing much. Kashmir Valley, after all, has been supporting the separatist cause for decades now. not one inch has been ceded.

Well in 1984 after bluestar the and 1984 riots the sikh anger against GOI was all time high.So may be they could had supported Pakistan , many sikh army men even deserted the army . Its just all about time .

[Riaz Gujjar]

Just when the topic gets really interesting, the OP seems to have deleted all his comments and left.

@JatherdarSikh kisi kohtay day a putra tameez say bat kar about my Religion.

you proved my point about a kamina person you are with who you can't reason with.

is that what Sikhi teaches you? Why ur guru nanak went to meeca? why do you use baba fareed's verses in guru granth if you hate Islam so much?

1st decide if you are Hindus or Sikhs get your recognition from Indian government then come talk about other religions.

That's exactly like sher's agenda to bring religion in to political discussion and derail it. I knew it so I stopped.

o

The last 2 Sentences in the picture say it all. The real Cowards are you bhenchods who don't say this when you come to Pakistan.

keep masturbating while you can I'm sure a paki teri Tuoi morroray ga soon!

Edited May 17, 2014 by Riaz Gujjar

[chatanga1]

.but taking advice from kharku84 its best to just call it quits when the other person has an organisedAgenda, you can't reason with them!... anyways this will be my last post on here.

No Mr Gujjar, I'm glad you've come here, only sad cos you came here when I was away.

There is nothing wrong in discussing things, but the best option is to keep an open mind when you do, and avoid repeating the same arguments. You see, we are all sick of Sher and his agenda, and I guess most people here couldnt take another version of him. Still you saying you leaving means you prolly have more sharam than him.

Anyways if you do stay, there are many things that I wanted to discuss with you, as from my experience esp with Pakistanis, is that they give a very one-dimensional view of the Great Disaster of 1947.

I wonder if you will be one of those types.

One thing that we need to do, Sikhs and Pakistanis, is to have a kind of conference, where these things can be discussed to diffuse any tensions over it. I know that both sides have them, even after 60 odd years.

Still until that happens, why not stick around here and see where it goes?

[Genie Singh]

Riaz deleting all his comments is just history repeating itself, Muhammaden coward following the prophet who ran away from Mecca to Medina with his tail between his legs as was the idea iterated in creating porkistan a mechanism for rats to run away back into their hole.

Porkistani history repeats itself again

Edited May 16, 2014 by JatherdarSahib

[tonyhp32]

Please do not tarnish proud Indian Sikhs' reputation by suggesting that they would have supported an enemy state. I am pretty sure, had an attack from Pak eventuated, Sikhs would have done everything to defend their turf valiantly. hypothetically speaking even if a part of the Punjab populace supports Muslim aggression, i do not think Pak army is capable of doing much. Kashmir Valley, after all, has been supporting the separatist cause for decades now. not one inch has been ceded.

Had Pakistan attacked India in 1984 no Sikh would have supported the Indian army in Punjab. You can think all you like that Sikhs would have supported India but I know what the situation was at them time. Had Zia attacked India the Sikhs in the army would have revolted just as some units had already done. Pakistan lost a change to take revenge for Bangladesh in 1984.

[Genie Singh]

Had Pakistan attacked India in 1984 no Sikh would have supported the Indian army in Punjab. You can think all you like that Sikhs would have supported India but I know what the situation was at them time. Had Zia attacked India the Sikhs in the army would have revolted just as some units had already done. Pakistan lost a change to take revenge for Bangladesh in 1984.

The whole of bluestar and delhi was revenge enough for Porkistan it was the Sikh units that won the great victory for Bangladesh to begin with.

[tonyhp32]

@JatherdarSikh kisi kohtay day a putra tameez say bat kar about my Religion.

you proved my point about a kamina person you are with who you can't reason with.

is that what Sikhi teaches you? Why ur guru nanak went to meeca? why do you use baba fareed's verses in guru granth if you hate Islam so much?

1st decide if you are Hindus or Sikhs get your recognition from Indian government then come talk about other religions.

That's exactly like sher's agenda to bring religion in to political discussion and derail it. I knew it so I stopped.

o

The last 2 Sentences in the picture say it all. The real Cowards are you bhenchods who don't say this when you come to Pakistan.

keep masturbating while you can I'm sure a paki teri Tuoi morroray ga soon!

This forum has been infected by Hindus and Hindus pretending to be Sikhs in the last few months. Don't mistake the views of Hindus pretending to be Sikhs like Jathedar Sahib and Amarjeet Hindustani as the views of real Sikhs. Hindus like Sher are just Hindu Punjabi hate mongers whose people because of their hatred of the Sikhs are now minorities in all the states created out of East Punjab and are hated in all these states.

You can always tell whether you are debating with a Sikh in that no Sikh will attack you if you come to the forum, only the Hindus and Hindus pretending to be Sikhs will start off by calling Pakistan as Porkistan and abusing you as their pro-India and pro-Hindu Punjabi talking points cannot withstand scrutiny.

Edited May 17, 2014 by tonyhp32

[amar_jkp]

Agenda - I dont have any agenda its who looks like have an agenda by coming here and for a topic written by Muslim and doing blah blah that we so called Punjabi muslim won soo many Nishan e haider and we are soorma of some kind .

My ancestors become Sikh when there was price on every Sikh head by Mughal Sarkar still Punjabis will self respect and pride become Sikh raise sword against Muhammad cult where as you type Gujjar soormas surrender and become Muslim now till me who is Brave ?

[amar_jkp]

You have to give credit to the Indian political and military leadership. even after few units revolted over the botched OBS (fully understand their sentiments), two Sikhs were made the chief of the army staff (including the current chief). Sikhs numbers were not reduced from the army and para military forces. In spite of the billions spent to stop khali terrorists and mind-boggling sops to Punjab farmers, Punjab is still among the richest Indian states.

Ask any Sikh living in India, bhaji India bahut marra mulk hai, Pakistan settle honna? answer jaroor dasna, gallan edit kar ke

You have to give credit to the Indian political and military leadership. even after few units revolted over the botched OBS (fully understand their sentiments), two Sikhs were made the chief of the army staff (including the current chief). Sikhs numbers were not reduced from the army and para military forces. In spite of the billions spent to stop khali terrorists and mind-boggling sops to Punjab farmers, Punjab is still among the richest Indian states.

Ask any Sikh living in India, bhaji India bahut marra mulk hai, Pakistan settle honna? answer jaroor dasna, gallan edit kar ke

Lala Ji would you answer why Sikh regiment 14 or me be some another was terminated completely , check out the whole documentary on operation Blue Star by Kanwar Sidhu you will know so many things like

1) After Mutiny Army head declare whole Sikh community as traitors

2) No Sikhs and Muslim allowed in Prime Minister Security ?

3) So Many Gurdwaras destroyed and converted in Mandirs and now Hindus refusing to give it back

More then 30, 000 Sikhs killed in genocide all over India but Indian people still say riots happened only in Delhi

Good that Modi has become Prime Minister and now he will show his true colour just wait fr civil war in India . I will also love to see the bravery of Khatri, Arore soormas of Panipat, Sonipat, Ambala, Karnal , Faridabad and Delhi .

[amar_jkp]

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?233089

Manmohan Singh Can't Have A Sikh Bodyguard

Or for that matter, a Muslim. The SPG, NSG don't hire them.

It is the unwritten rule that no official wants to talk about openly. Our secular democracy does not deploy Muslims or Sikhs to protect its VVIPs. While Muslims were always under suspicion, the Sikhs got blacklisted after Indira Gandhi's assassination in 1984 by her personal bodyguards who were Sikh.

It is ironic that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, a Sikh, has no brethren from his own community detailed in the security cordon around him.

Officials of the Special Protection Group (SPG), established in 1984 for providing security to prime ministers, have ensured that neither Sikhs or Muslims are employed as bodyguards to VVIPs

Sources in the security set-up confirm there exists an unwritten code which is complied with diligently. Points out an official: "When it comes to VVIP security, we cannot take any chances, especially since the country has lost two of its prime ministers to brutal killings. Proximate security is the last defence, and if that is weak, how can we ensure safety of the person we've to protect?"

As far as Sikhs go, Indira Gandhi's killing and militancy in Punjab put an end to them being recruited as securitymen. Much has changed since then but the community continues to be on the blacklist. Notes a senior official in the security set-up: "It has become an established thing. To change it, someone will have stick his neck out. And if something goes wrong he will have to answer for it. Nobody is willing to take any chances." The same line of thinking holds true for Muslims. As long as terrorism from across the border does not cease, members of the community will be under a cloud. Home ministry officials say with terror strikes across the country being linked to Islamic terrorism it would be a " big risk" to put a Muslim on VVIP security.

However, since no government organisation can bar persons of any particular community the SPG does employ a few Muslims and Sikhs. But they are kept off personal security. Reveals an official: "A 3000-strong organisation like the SPG does have Muslims and Sikhs. But we ensure that they are not deployed in sensitive posts. They are posted in the administration or intelligence"

The situation is not very different in the National Security Guard (NSG)—the other force which provides security to vips. The NSG was set up in 1984 after Operation Bluestar when the Indian army stormed the Golden Temple to flush out Sikh militants. The need was felt for creating a special force to conduct counter-terrorist operations with greater efficiency. The NSG was first deployed to combat insurgency in Punjab. But it evolved into an anti-terrorist unit with operations in J&K and other parts of the country. And it does not have any Sikh or Muslim as bodyguards.

Over the years, its elite Black Cat commandos have also been saddled with providing security to VVIPs, other than prime ministers (present and former) and their kin. They include political leaders like former deputy PM L.K. Advani, UP CM Mulayam Singh Yadav, BSP chief Mayawati and former Tamil Nadu CM J. Jayalalitha. But none of them will be a Sikh or a Muslim.

[amar_jkp]

Thousands Submit Sikh Genocide Petition to the United Nations in Geneva

GENEVA, Switzerland (November 2, 2013)—Thousands of Sikhs from around the world assembled at the UN offices in Geneva, Switzerland, yesterday, demanding the launch of an international investigation into the 1984 genocidal acts against Sikhs in India, which India concludes to be as a result of bare communal rioting.

Organisers from the New York based human rights advocacy group, Sikhs For Justice, had earlier held talks with UN officials and submitted a million-signature petition to the UN Human Rights office.

Sikhs For Justice policy director, Canadian-born Jatinder Singh Grewal said, “The reason we are petitioning the UN to investigate the killing of Sikhs in November 1984 is that we believe the truth has not been told to the world.”

“What happened in November 1984 was a systematic and deliberate attempt to kill a religious minority. It happened with the complicity of the government and, in many documented cases, with the participation of the government,” he added.

Indian diplomats in Geneva said that the events had been dealt with by India’s judicial system but were unwilling to comment on the submitted petition.

Continuously rising tensions in India erupted in October 1984 after Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was assassinated. She had ordered a full-scale military attack on the Golden Temple in Amritsar, Punjab, June of that year. While India only acknowledges the murders of 3000 Sikhs due to mere “riots,” activists say there is evidence supporting a death toll of over 30,000.

[tonyhp32]

Modi must be glad that no Sikh or Muslim can become a part of his bodyguard.

[chatanga1]

3) So Many Gurdwaras destroyed and converted in Mandirs and now Hindus refusing to give it back

Give evidence or apologise unless you are employed by ISI. Gurdwaras, mosques being built all over India like never before. Ridiculous!

Gian Godri, Hardwar

Gurdwara 6th Patshahi Gwalior are two that come immediately to mind as they are/were religiously historic Gurdwaras. Both are now Mandirs.

[kdsingh80]

Modi must be glad that no Sikh or Muslim can become a part of his bodyguard.

Actually Modi did have sikh bodyguard. In his Varanasi rally one Sikh commando was part of Modi's bodyguard team.If Modi really wanted he could had removed him as in this election Modi was the most threatened politician

[OnPathToSikhi]

same betrayal happened to Guru Gobind Singh ji when he was stabbed by two muslims living close to him.

No co-relation to what is being discussed. I think you were warned to keep any references Guru Sahibs out of your comments if you do not understand the Sikh historical contexts. You are again cunningly try to inject hate. If I notice anything similar going forward I am going to have ask to have indefinitely keep you out.

[chatanga1]

hardly any record that tat khalsa gurdwara of any such name ever existed.

Mr Hindu Fanatic, the Gurdwaras existed from the times of the Guru's, what would a written record do?

. some fanatics whipping communal sentiments threatening to build gurdwara illegally like they have done at so many places in punjab (where illegal Hindu temples are pulled down rightly but never a gurdwara).

Mr Hindu Fanatic, can you show us any evidence for these two claims you have made?

Any Gurdwara pulled down in Gwalior?

Open your eyes Mr Hindu Fanatic, no-one said anything about a gurdwara being pulled down in gwalior.

[OnPathToSikhi]

Mr intolerant fanatic,

Intolerance to hate. Absolutely ANY random reference to Guru Sahibs from you and I will ensure that you are out of here ... forever.

[OnPathToSikhi]

Guru sahiban di thekedari chadd...hawa aaun de thodi

Dodging and running away from facts is not going to help you, Mr. cut-paste-history-crook-and-distortionist. Vekhee jaa tu hoon ...

[chatanga1]

No originality, what else to be expected from you.

Anyway, i have been giving verifiable evidence of whatever i say.

who can be original with you Mr Intolerant Hindu?

You have had your answers and then when unable to accept them try and twist the subject. What on earth has illegal gurdwaras in panjab got to do with the fact that 2 religiously historic gurdwaras were turned into mandirs in 1984?

and your verifiable evidence? a news article? thats exactly where I got my information from, I will try and find a link so you can read it yourself. But then you will always have the excuse that a Sikh wrote it, so it can be easily dismissed.