Ideal Singh

Why this Question Mark Dear :roll: Exactly :twisted: Very Much True ... ... Gr8 Analysis I think Sikhz are recognized as Hard Worker thourgh our this Globe. Yup !!! Please Discuss

Why is that over a period of time the Raagz have not been in the fancy of Sikh Sangat...? We give so much stress on our Dress Code and on Rehat Maryadaz and on our Outward Appearance... But when it comes to Gurbani, why dont we take the Raagz so much seriously... Afterall understanding Gurbani is what Sikhism is all about... And if we cant understand the basicz how can we implement it in our life... Why has this happend that we have drifted away from reciting Gurbani in classical Raagz...?

This may help to launch a Discussion about the works of Kala Afghana... _____________________________________________________________ A translation and brief analysis of chapter 38, entitled "Hunh Takk Dii Vichaar Daa Sankhep [A Summary of the Discussion Thus Far]," from the book "Maasu Maasu Kari Moorakh Jhagdhey [Fools Debate Non- Vegetarianism]" by Gurbakhsh Singh Kala Afghana. By PUNEET SINGH LAMBA Gurbakhsh Singh Kala Afghana retired in 1981 as inspector of police. In 1984, while he was visiting Canada, India cancelled his passport and confiscated his property. Now based in Canada, the Sikh author's books Biparan Kii Riit Ton Sach Daa Maarag and Bachittar Natak: Gurbani Di Kasvuti Te contend that the Dasam Granth was not entirely authored by Guru Gobind Singh. Renowned Sikh scholar Gurtej Singh, jathedar of Takht Damdama Sahib Giani Kewal Singh, and many others have stoutly defended Kala Afghana's writings. Sikh scholar Giani Bhag Singh Ambalavi had to apologise in the late 1970s for having questioned the validity of the Dasam Granth. Gurbakhsh has questioned the commonly held belief that Guru Tegh Bahadur died for Hindus. He has written, 'the only complaint before the emperor was that Guru Tegh Bahadur was fanning insurgency against the government. Thus those claiming that the Guru sacrificed his life for Hinduism are sullying the principles of Sikhism.' The Sikh Times, Sep. 8, 2003 1. The Adi Granth does not concern itself with either vegetarianism or non-vegetarianism. 2. Whereas the Adi Granth expounds at length about the need to abandon various vices, it says nothing about the need to abandon non-vegetarian diets. 3. The Adi Granth does not attempt to pass judgement on the dietary components required for maintaining a healthy human body. The Adi Granth does, however, recommend against consuming substances that either cause grief or generate mental turbulence. 4. Those that choose to dwell on the consumption of substances rather than focus their minds on remembering God have been derided by the Adi Granth ('consumed by the desire for substances'). This 'desire' can be either for a single substance or for a number of substances. It is worth noting that the Adi Granth mentions the desire for meat at the very end of a list of nine desires: 'The desires for gold, silver, women, fragrances,' 'horses, beds, palaces, sweets, and meat.' (Verse 43/1, p. 34) [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 15] It is clear from Guru Nanak's verse (above) that he accords meat a status similar to gold, silver, women, fragrances, horses, beds, palaces, and sweets. To forget God and remain obsessed with substances is 'desire.' For those that are immersed in the rememberance of God, no substance is 'desirous.' To obsess unduly on meat, i.e. only one of the nine desires acknowledged by the Adi Granth, is tantamount to ignoring the fundamental messages of the Adi Granth. 5. To attach undue importance to matters of eating and drinking rather than focusing on remembering God has been termed by our Gurus as harmful to the pursuit of a spiritual lifestyle. Furthermore, our Gurus have placed meat on par with other superior substances such as fruit, butter, jaggery, and refined flour. 'What good are fruits, butter, sweet jaggery, refined flour, and meat?' (Verse 44/2, p. 34) [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 142] Verses such as the one above make it abundantly clear that it is not incorrect to view meat on par with other superior substances such as gold, silver, butter, jaggery, and refined flour. 6. Bhai Randhir Singh and other writers opposed to non-vegetarian diets have omitted verses that do not suit their purpose. Consequently, these writers have zoomed in on just two of Guru Nanak's verses, namely: 'Mortals are first conceived in flesh and subsequently dwell on flesh' and 'Fools argue about flesh and meat but know little about meditation and spiritual wisdom.' (Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 1289). Even these two verses have only been mentioned out of compulsion since the Sikh community is already exposed to these verses. Preachers, Guru Nanak's biographies, and other historical texts have widely publicized these verses due to their said reference to Guru Nanak's visit to Kurukshetra. Nevertheless, these writers have tried their level best to distort the meanings of these verses. Clearly, Bhai Randhir Singh has been guided not by an in-depth understanding of the Adi Granth but by his own agenda, wishes, and desires. 7. The meat that Muslim's have always referred to as 'halal' began to be referred to by brahmins as 'kutha' meat of the 'malech.' 8. The following are the reasons why Sikhs were forbidden from eating kutha meat: a. During Mughal rule, kutha meat was used to destroy the Hindu faith. Eating kutha meat resulted in spiritual weakness among Hindus. b. According to Mughal law, Hindus were neither permitted to keep weapons at home nor allowed to cook and eat any form of meat. Sikhism's tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, placed two major impediments in the way of Mughal oppression via his decision to a) arm the Sikhs and ban Sikhs from consuming spiritually detrimental katha food preparations. 9. Only those Adi Granth verses that refer to Islam have used the term 'kutha.' Otherwise, the terms 'kuh' or 'kuhi' (slaughter) have been employed. Therefore, it is clear that the convention of referring to meat prepared in the Muslim style as 'kutha' existed at least since Guru Nanak's time. 10. The body may die, but never the soul. 11. Mankind (as opposed to God) has devised different names for identifying the various types of externally distinguishable living organisms. It is mankind that considers it sinful to eat certain living organisms and not others. 12. The Adi Granth has compared the bodies of living organisms to gowns, clothing, etc. Therefore, it is mankind that has invented convenient terminology such as flour, meat, spinach, wood, etc. to refer to various bodies/coverings/clothing. Disputes over the difference between spinach and meat are simply the result of either human ignorance or mischief. 13. The human body is unique among all other species. This is because of all species God has awarded the ability to distinguish moral right from wrong only to humans. 14. Only the human mind is capable of yearning for relief from sorrow or attainment of happiness. All other species lack the ability to yearn. 15. The Adi Granth only works on diseases of the human mind. It is a recipe for winning the world by being victorious over the human mind. The Adi Granth teaches us how to channel the immense forces of the human mind into positive directions. The Adi Granth has to do with the soul. None of the great holy books preaches about the welfare of living creatures. We have continuously been engaged in the endeavor of reigning in the human mind. 16. The Adi Granth frequently refers to the human body as rare (unique) or God's temple. The human body has been likened to a horse that carries the soul into God's country and a ladder that helps humans climb great heights to reach God's palaces. It is for this reason that the human body is supreme among eighty-four lakh (84 times 100,000) species. Therefore, human society did not accept the idea of eating human flesh. All other species such as animals, birds, insects, and micro-organisms are ingested into the human body in one form or another. In many other ways these animals and birds are slave to the superior human species. 17. Eating and drinking are pure acts. However, the Adi Granth code of conduct places restrictions on the consumption of those substances which humans have manifested as desires that either harm the human body or cause grief. 18. Humans have treated meat as a part of their diet since ancient times. Even today there are several peoples on this earth whose primary diet consists of animals, birds, and fish. 19. All living things - including lentils, vegatable oils, insects, micro-organisms, animals, and birds - possess equivalent life. Our merciful behavior toward animals and birds should include every effort toward attention to their diet and comfort, protection from their mistreatment as beasts of burden, offering relief from pain and suffering.4 Whenever treatment is not feasible, it is merciful to assist helpless animals by sparing them pain and discomfort by ending their life swiftly via a blow to the head, electricity, etc. 20. No faith founder has campaigned against the trade of millions of pounds of meat, fish, and eggs - trade in non-vegetarian commodities continues just as seamlessly as trade in grains. Since ancients times animals and birds have been cultivated and harvested for trade just like crops. Conclusion: Therefore, to raise issues pertaining to vegetarianism and non-vegetarianism is sheer foolishness. The decision regarding whether or not to consume non-vegetarian diet should be upto each individual. Neither does one become sinful by consuming meat nor does one become pious by renouncing meat. The Adi Granth, which embodies the spirit of Guru Nanak, does not attempt to define restrictions pertaining to religious duties and horoscopes?. Let us not distort the true import of the following verse from our Guru: 'Fools argue about flesh and meat but know little about meditation and spiritual wisdom.' [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 1289] 'Which is meat? Which is spinach? Which is sinful?' [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 1289] Author's Footnote: A. The offices of stated king Chitragupt and others maintain no record of the sins and merits of either visible or invisible life forms. Among all the nameless offices of the nameless God only Guru Nanak had the wisdom to recognize this. There is an account of the same in the Adi Granth. No other major holy book carries a similar account. For a detailed explanation, please see my multi-volume book entitled Bipparan Kii Riit Ton Sachh Daa Maarag.5 Translator's Footnotes: 1. Chapter 24, entitled Maas Khaanh Dii Virodhataa Vich Guroo-Banhii Phuramaan? (Adi Granth's Edict Against Non-Vegetarianism?) is particularly critical of 'misinterpretations of the Adi Granth' by anti-non-vegetarianism writers. Those at the receiving end of the author's wrath are the founder and two senior leaders of the supremacist/segregationist Akhand Kirtani Jatha (A.K.J.) namely, Bhai Randhir Singh (founder), J.P. Sangat Singh (author of Sikh Dharam Te Maas Sharaab [Meat, Alcohol, and the Sikh Religion]), and Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara (author of Teyn Kyon Murgii Maarii? [Why Kill a Chicken?]). The chapter expounds on the following verse which, on the surface, appears to admonish in no uncertain words those who consume fish and, by extension, meat. The verse has been used extensively by the above-mentioned authors to advocate against non-vegetarianism. 'Kabir, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish, and wine,' 'will go to hell despite all pilgrimages, fasts, and rituals.' (Kabir, Adi Granth, p. 1377) The author implores the reader to carefully consider Kabir's choice of words. The author dismisses outright the possibility that Kabir utilized marijuana and fish in the symbolic sense to imply all narcotics and all non-vegetarian foods. Instead, Kala Afghana points out that 'marijuana, fish, and wine' have been used in the colloquial sense as reference to those who frequent brothels. The author claims that this meaning of the phrase was, and still is, popular in Varanasi (formerly known as Banaras or Benares), Kabir's place of origin. The phrase derives its colloquial meaning from the notion that the consumption of 'marijuana, fish, and wine' increases sex drive. In other words, Kabir is admonishing not non-vegetarianism but sexual promiscuity. Bhai Randhir Singh employs faulty logic - a kind of guilt by association - when he substitutes 'marijuana, fish, and wine' for Kabir's intended target: sexual promiscuity. 2. Although, the author uses the commonly accepted figure of eighty-four lakh (84 times 100,000), he clarifies that in fact the Adi Granth recognizes that the total number of species is not a constant but has been fluctuating over the ages as old species disappear and new ones come forth. 3. The author references the following verse in support of his assertion that according to the Adi Granth all other species in this world are slave to the superior human species. 'Other life forms may be your water-carriers [here, water-carrier is used as a euphemism for slave],' 'you may be the ruler of this world.' (Guru Arjan, Adi Granth, Aasaa Dii Vaar, p. 374) 4. The author implies that the Adi Granth teaches compassion for all life forms but does not approve of pretentious gestures such as wearing masks to prevent the ingestion of micro-organisms or walking barefoot to avoid stepping on insects (both practices are popular among orthodox followers of the Jain faith). 5. Furthermore, Kala Afghana is of the opinion that a misinterpretation of the Adi Granth has lead scholars to conclude incorrectly that the Adi Granth supports the ideas of reincarnation, heaven, and hell. Translator's General Note: It should be noted that the author supports his arguments throughout the book with quotes from Professor Sahib Singh's translation of the Adi Granth. Translator's Acknowledgement: This translation and analysis has benefited immensely from Kala Afghana's generous interview with The Sikh Times on Sep. 6, 2003.

Turban tying is a art of which I am Proud off... I just love tying it everyday... though initially when I was learning to tie Turban, I also used to do same i.e wear pre-tied Turbanz. But now I just love doing it daily... It makes me feel distinguished from the rest of the bunch...

Aaloo Da Prantha hovae & Makhan tae Chah hovae... Yummy :wink: !! and you say Run away!! :twisted:

Yaa Jugraj is out for sometime now!! Thatz bad for Indian Hockey...

:shock: Oh Come On!! atleast avoid MANMATT while talking about the Guru... :cry:

Dont worry much about it. Do you think Rabji stayz only in a Gurudwara or Darbar Sahib? He is omnipresent. So, Itz not a big deal and therez is nothing to seek forgiveness.

Hey! cool it off Friendz!! No body is bashing anybody. Itz just a discussion. Steel Bangle if you go towards the beginning of this thread you would find that this discussion was started by me in a very lighter mood... but then someone took it by heart and now it has become an arguement... But the fact of the matter is that when Sikhz living outside India can easily bash Sikhz living in India then why they feel bad when somebody counterz their arguementz... We should remember that If we criticise someone then we should be ready to be criticized as well... Drinking is no doubt a very big problem in India and particularly in Punjab where 52% of men are drinkerz and 48% of women regularly take drinks (Which is a stagerring number...)(This reaseach was conducted by Sikh Fulwari (by Sikh Missionary College). The place where I am Putting i.e. Chandigarh... there are installed a "Thaika Sharaab Desi" at every 1.5 kmz (with fully air conditioned Ahataz/Yards). You wont beleve that there are more vehicles outside these ahataaz than in the movie theatrs. Apprently, this is also a very deep routed consipiracy to weaken the youth of Punjab, which was once the most progressing State in India. The main drawback in present Sikh community is: dreath of people with good leadership qualities. Waheguru Waheguru Japna, Tae paraya Maal Apna is policy being followed. Panthtic committess are more about their survival rather than uplifting the lowering spirits of Sikh Community India. But isnt it the same case outside India as well... There is no doubt that Sikhi in India is at itz lowest ebb... But dont worry about the roots of Sikhi... Roots are everywhere, whereever there is a good Sikh of the Guru. Sikhism is not a regional Religion... itz a Global Religion... so there is nothing to worry about your rootz Steel Bangle... Letz try to be a good Sikh of the Guru whereever we are... We are simply discussing: What is the Contribution of NRI Sikhz and not playing a blame game... So let us continue with the discussion... Where are leaderz who can represent Sikhz residing outside India. Are there any representations of NRI Sikhz in Sikh Affairs being run in India? Please Discuss.

What about thoz poor fellaz, who met with accidnets with you ? God Bless their poor soul...

Hello Friendz, As a Sikh and being residing outside India, especially in USA, How this event has affected your lifestyles. Please share your experiences...

Here are some of my favorite snapz of my Childhood... :wink: Three months.......................................... Six months............................................. Three years.......................... Four yrs old..................................................... And five yrs Old Aman

Why Sikhs generally happend to be Overweightz? What are the reasonz for this Phenomenon ? Why Sikhs are generally Obest ?

Triangle Turbanz :shock: ? How come ?

Oh Wow this site iz cool... Thanx dude !!

We are waiting Rupz...........................

The important rule of this Forum... No personal Remarks JSB !!! Today Indian Challenger Series begins...

I have noticed here in forum that everyone is critical of his writingz just becasue hez is saying something different to prevalent conceptionz or misconceptionz. I have read some part of a authored by him "Maans Maans Kar Moorakh Jhagdae"... If we read it without bias and with open mind it is a really a gem of a book... And moreover the most of his arguement are based on Gurbani only. So What makes his writingz a matter so much debate and Was his X-communication un-warranted for... ? Please discuss about his writtingz.... Are they really anti-Gurmat or just that we follow what the people at helm interperate about him to Sangat...

JSB could you elaborate more on this for the benefit of a ignorant person like me...

Many Happy Returns for the Day

Taken from another forum... Today I was on a commercial airline flight from Calgary, Alberta (Canada) to San Jose, California. There was another turbaned man on board. When I saw him, I thought to myself, "It's nice to have a Sardar aboard." After the flight was in progress, he wanted to take a nap. So he took off what appeared to be a starched and pre-tied turban (like a hat), and he placed the turban-hat in the overhead storage compartment on the plane. This revealed his Patka, in which he took his snooze aboard the plane. After the pilot informed the passengers via the public address system on the plane that we would soon land, the Sardar returned his turban-hat to his head. This whole episode blew me away. This Sardar must have been in his mid-50s or early 60s--certainly not a young boy to be seen in a Patka only. I know that the whole practice of turban wearing is a personal thing, but was the behavior that I witnessed good "Sikh etiquette" or not? I'm sure I'll be enlightened by the folks on this e-mail list. Thanks in advance for your input! Please remain in Chardhi Kalaa. Gur Fateh

Yeah!! Lolz

Well Sir, "Steel Bangle" is supposed to be worne on your active hand... so that you are cautioned before commiting a wrong deed. If you are a lefty then its no prob...

I agree with Sardu, thatz xactly what we are discussing in another thread in this forum... http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=1759 I hope that addz to this very important discussion... Humbly

What are your most important questions? Oh I wishing someone would pick up this Topic... It strikes me that the role of philosophy should be an attempt to answer the really deep questions that count, not necessarily the dry technical questions over pedantics and semantics. Below is my list. Please make up your own in reply! 1. Does God exist? 2. How can Muslim and Western world views co-exist? 3. What can Buddhism teach us? 4. Should abortion be legal? 5. Is there such a thing as good and evil? 6. What’s the best way to live? 7. Should we care about animals? 8. Should we be more compassionate? 9. What is consciousness? 10. Are mind and matter the same thing? 11. Does time flow? 12. Are we the same person we were five years ago? 13. How do you know you’re not dreaming? 14. Is there such thing as cause and effect? 15. Do we have a free will? 16. Is time travel possible? 17. What is truth? 18. What is reality really like? 19. What is the ideal state of the future? 20. Should America rule the world? 21. Are wars justified? 22. What is the role of punishment? 23. Is democracy the answer? 24. Is globalised capitalism a good thing? 25. Should there be borders? 26. Can scientific theories be true? 27. What is the role of science in society? If we had the answers to these, philosophy could save the world! What are your most important questions?