Ideal Singh

Wow !! This is a real Fun now... I am simply loving these "Arguements". Bikz... it is really a sad state of affairz for the Sikhz that they can not gell together as a United Sikh Cummunity... You are already farthering yourself from the Indian Sikh Community by distinuishing between Indian Sikhz and Western Sikhz or French Sikhz etc. etc. Just grease your mind a bit and recollect who made all the sacrifices in 1984... Indian Sikhz right or wrong ? So you now want to disown them ? Real Shame... Bear this in mind while refuting all my arguementz, I am NOT against the Idea at all !! Did I ever say that this idea is a Crap ? The movie thing was just to release the pressure a bit... What I am saying is that: We can minutely analyse the pro and conz of the idea... or that is not on... :roll: One party can give arguementz in itz favour and the other against... so whatz the big deal in there... :roll: ? Just becasue the idea seemz plausable doesnt necessarily meanz itz practical.

I would love to be a five yr old all my life... who doesnt want to be... Is there any problem with that ? <Mod Note> Steel Bangle, Lets not bring your personal likes or dislikes for each other onto the board, if you want to settle this do it over msn or pm

I hope now the query is more digestable... So... what should be the ingrediantz of a Ideal Religion ?

So you want to sit and chew Bubblegum ?

Nice Picz... You are a Smarty !!

Brazil ! Brazil !! Brazil !!! Brazil ! Brazil !! Brazil !!! Brazil ! Brazil !! Brazil !!! Brazil ! Brazil !! Brazil !!! Brazil ! Brazil !! Brazil !!! My football Anthem !!!

Take Asprin coz Reality Bitez !! :twisted: And Sir, You need not take painz at all, Freedom Fighter is doing it for you !! Thanx for making me understand the plot of fiction !!! This fiction could be the best seller in Hollywood err bollywood... :? ehem whatever !!! :roll: And then you would be able to raise a good money to buy a Island Best of Luck !!! But Oooooopz!! Who is gonna finace such a movie... Oh Yaa :idea: Mr. Bikz is here to finance... so Mr. Freedon Fighter you need not worry about the finances... I would be the first to buy a ticket and watch the fiction movie... 8) I hope I am not the only one... :cry: And dont forget to have send a snatch squad to kidnap me coz thatz the only way Sikhz are gonna land at that place... Long live the myth of Sikhland... Dont worry Lalleshwari Penji we would create partitionz in that Island... Humly on your side... :wink:

Piercing meanz making the live tissue in your body dead... so that they never retain their livliness back... that iz equivalent to cutting your hair... coz they too are not a dead tissue unlike our nailz...

God can do anything for you if you simply give Him a chance...

Yes Sir as you say sir !! but whole of mine post was not crap... Here it is reproduced again... The Punjabis were more prone to heart diseases as compared to people living in other regions of the country and even the young persons around the age of 30 were facing heart attacks, said noted Cardiologist Prof Upendra Kaul of Batra Hospital, New Delhi, here on Sunday. He was in the city to deliver his key note address ''Coronary Care 2003 and beyond...'' at the Zenith 2003 Summit organised by USV Ltd and Patiala Cardiology Initiative. Talking to Times News Network, Kaul said that Punjabis were very fond of fatty diet but on the other hand they had almost said bye to physical activities. The farmers are getting their work done in the fields from migrant labour instead of involving themselves in hard physical work. Under these circumstances, they were inviting heart diseases, Kaul said. The noted cardiologist said that at least half an hour brisk walk, keeping blood pressure at normal level, reducing weight, leaving the bad habit of smoking, keeping the cholesterol under 150 and at least checking of blood sugar at least once a year could save a person from heart ailments. He said there was no substitute for regular walk and it should be started from the childhood. He advised if any person faced some trouble in walking, he should contact doctor before and with his recommendation he should go for exercises. However, the treatment of heart attacks was costly but soon it would be within the reach of the common man. He disclosed that a tablet of aspirin could reduce the mortality rate by 22 per cent. Earlier, delivering his key note address at the Zenith 2003 Summit, he said there were great changes in management of heart attacks and now we could expect less than 5 per cent mortality if state-ofthe-art treatment including thrombolytic therapy (clot buster) or primary ballooning of the blocked artery was carried out in very early hours, which is known as Golden Hours in medical parlance. Better and more gratifying results will be there in future but time was of essence to management and it was vital that heart attack management centres and heart care units were made more accessible to public. Dr Harinder Bali of PGI, Chandigarh, stressed on recognising and treatment of hypertensive patients who are largely asymptomatic. He also noted that diabetics were more prone to heart attacks and needed early management with bypass surgery or ballooning techniques. Dr SS Kothari, paediatric cardiologist at AIIMS, New Delhi, stressed on early recognition and treatment of heart diseases and stressed on the positive results of surgery in paediatric heart patients. Dr Balbir Singh of Batra Hospital, New Delhi, discussed catheter-based interventions in patients with fast and irregular heart. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll...how?msid=170837

Ok let me rephrase my question: What is the problem if we do a pony tail of our hair... We are not violating any of Kakkrz... are we :roll: ? And what is this mystery of dasam duaar... Why it needz protection ? Plz Enlighten ...

Championz League start with a Bang.... Fifer for Man U... Real Madrid awesome... you are on whose side...? I think Real Madrid with handz down...

Well Well Well... Dear All, I duly acknowledge your concern and dedication on this topic. And dont worry about my knowledge on this subject. I had posted my reply late on this topic coz I was reading the whole discussion thouroughly and doing some research which is reproduced in the end... Dear FF... How can you be so sure about your planz, when you have miserably failed to respond to even my every first simple query and subsequently to next 12 queries... Rolling your eyez wont provide the answers !!! My first question was: 1. What were the facts that lead to the dropping of that Ecquador Idea...? My question still standz tall... Let the everybody know why it was dropped? Do some research !! Or should I do it for you? I am, no doubt, very slow... but I have a very important quality is missing in all your postz and that is: I think before I write and you dont think even after you have written and posted... I have read all your posts and your commentz in support of the cause... ironically the fact of the matter is that all of your postz are based of pure assumptions and rendered useless until you consider my first 13 queries... What Amrican Sikh or French Sikhz crap you are booasting off...? My dear friend!! All these Sikhz have their rootz firmly fixed in India by some way or the other... All have migrated from India for greener pastures but their heart and families still live in India... Do you think they are going to endanger their lives for a placid piece of land. Why do you people cant think in the borader perspective... ? I wonder... Freedom Fighter... you act very clumsily when you say that you wont allow entry to Extremists into Sikhland... What does that mean...? that meanz you are acting as a separate nation with your own army and weaponz and in frustration the Indianz would target the Sikh people living in india... I am shocked that you people can not relate the two thingz... Rather, you yourself have miserably failed to demonstrate anything constructive... to me atleast... The fact that you can not find any co-relation with Sikhs living in India and those living abroad, makez me wonder what are you demonstrating... Let me describe whether you are demonstrating or purely Assumping... Let me enumerate step by step... Purely a Assumption (# 1) Be specific... ASSUMPTION (# 2) Are we talking about business !!! This is no business... Do you assume Channels gonna advertise this...? No printing press is gonna print any such materalz... no one is going to circulate this stuff...? Who will do it... Be specific... ASSUMPTION (# 3) What Europeon standardz and Europeon standard of life you are talking about? Be specfic... ASSUMPTION (# 4) Who is going to allow you to propogate such stuff on these mediaz... Who is gonna print such magazinez & newspaperz... & who is going to allow such printing of material ? First confirm the resources then come up such assumptionz. Be Specific... Pure ASSUMPTION (# 5). Wrong judgement. I am talking about Sikhz residing in India and Extremistz groups in India. How are you going to screen them. Be specific... How are you going to check up their records with... Who is going to give you the recordz to check up their history... their bakcground... Be specific about the resources... PURE ASSUMPTION (# 6): You smile is beautifull when you LOL... But How are you so sure that Indian Gov will not blame Punjabi Sikhs and how have you simply assumed that: Punjabi Sikhz have nothing to do with it. Mind you, all Western Sikh have their immediate relatives putting up in Punjab... so your assumption that they have nothing to with it is baseless and pure short-sighted. Purly Short sightedness... (#7) When you would be able to realize the co-relation between the Indian Sikhz and Rest of Sikhz living abroad then all these quering would appear relevant to you... Wake up my dear friend... Purly Short sightedness... Read point 6 more deligently. Pure ASSUMPTION (# 8) How can you be so sure... Please explain... Pure ASSUMPTION (# 9) Who is going to stop Indian from not allowing Sikhz to do it? Be specific... Which International Law you are referring too... Pure ASSUMPTION (# 10) How can you claim it? Plz Elaborate... Dont just refute everything !! Purly Short Sightedness... (# 11) You can not act like a Ostrich who hids his mounth in sand and thinks everything is fine. What can the Sikhz do when they would only see all the gunz blazing towardz them...? Nothing but sitting ducks... Pure ASSUMPTION (# 12) Which countries would be pissed off at such human rights violations... Be specific... Before any country could react, misery would be complete on the Sikhz... No country would even come to do a post-mortem. Pure ASSUMPTION (# 13) No body would come forward for the cause of Sikhz coz they are not benefitd from this sacrifice... What will the Chistianz and Muslimz get out of it... you forget about Godhra... Nobody would listenz to your yearningz. You mean to assume that indian govt sit and watch all this happening in front of their eyez. Pure ASSUMPTION (# 14) Sikhz will cease Punjab and declare independence. Be specific... How are they gonna do it... by consuming alchohal and dancing. Who would help them in fighting with Indian Army and provide them meanz to fight... You And Not me is in the dreamland... Wake up Dude... Wake up to reality... Pure ASSUMPTION (# 15) By Laughing out Loud you are trying to hide your short sightedness on the whole topic. China can do nothing of India... or for that matter noone can touch Indian territory... you forget the ruthless suppression of Punjab cause and the Kashmiri people... Where were these so called Human Rightz Organisationz in 1984. No one came forward... You totally deal in assumptionz and your whole posts are based on ifz and butz... And I deal in Factz... and to support my calimz, read carefully the below given research carefully about your dream artifical Island i.e. have a look at your venture into the dreamland of Japan Osaka Airport... Here is the fact file of Japanz Osaka Kansai Airport from own website: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansai_International_Airport This man-made island project was proposed for a space as small as this (1 x 4 kilometers). And it took 34 yrs to build such an airport and they are already considering that as the biggest blunder in the Japanz History... How much time it would take us to build a aritifical island to support 1-2 million Sikhz you can imagine... The Airport is quickly sinking into the depthz of the ocean... Read the whole post please... Specially the last paragraph... Here it goez... In the 1960s Kansai was losing trade to Tokyo. An airport near Osaka and Kobe was needed. Osaka airport was surrounded by buildings and could not be expanded. Neighbors were angry of noise. Tokyo Narita protests showed the degree of opposition to near-city airports in Japan. Initially, the airport was planned to be built in offshore of Kobe, but the city of Kobe refused the plan. Decision to build an airport "in the sea" was made. Located in Osaka Bay it could be open 24-hours per day. Only fishermen protested but they were silenced by hefty compensations. Engineers faced the risk of earthquakes (worst in the world) and typhoons (sea surge of 3 meters). A man-made island project was proposed (1 x 4 kilometers). Construction started in 1987, the sea wall was finished in 1989 (made of rocks and 48,000 pieces of 4-pointed concrete blocks), 3 mountains were excavated for earth (21 million cubic meters of earth), 10,000 workers, 10 million workhours, 3 years, 80 ships, 30 meter layer over the sea floor (inside the sea wall), 3 km bridge built to connect the island ($1 bn, completed 1990). By 1990, the island had sunk 8 meters (far more than predicted) and the project became the most expensive blunder in human history after 20 years of planning, 3 years of construction and several billion dollars invested. 1991 - start of the terminal construction (the longest building in the world). Island sinking was solved by adjustable-length columns on which the terminal sits. 1994 - airport opened. 1995 - survived Kobe earthquake unscathed mostly due to the use of sliding joints (20 km from the epicenter of a quake that resulted in 5000 dead). Even the glass in windows stayed intact. 1998 - survived typhoon 200 km/h. 2003: Still sinking (30 cm/year) and serious countermeasures will be needed in 5-10 years. Total cost, $15 bn, 40% over budget (mostly due to sinking problems), still in debt ($560 million in annual interest). Second runway was planned but the present debt makes it impossible, esp. that the estimated cost is $30 bn (the second island would go even deeper into the sea). In the meantime, Tokyo's Narita expands and the economic value of Kansai is being undermined. Come to discussion table on this topic with concrete planz... Your knowledge on this topic lefts a lot to be desired... Well I have no time to analyse your rest of the assumtious posts... ...so waiting for your reply... and hopefully everybody would comeup with some concrete factz and figurez and not a ideological one-sided, assumptious replies...

What makez you think these lines? :roll: I am no scholor on Punjabiyat except for that, with Godz grace, I can read and write Gurumukhi and trying to understand it... about the Rest I am least bothered... Regardz

Dear, Can you explain why & how these two thingz are not co-related... :roll: I am sure you know that an Alien is person who is not of origin of a country he is living... not from outer space !! Soevery person of Indian origin living outside India is a Alien... I think you are mistaking concentration campz for Jewish Concentration Campz... I am talkng about 1984 seige on Sikhz in & around Punjab... when the Sant 'B' declared Punjab a separate soverign state... Have we forgotten that in 20 yrz...? Just dont pickup a single line from the whole post... If you can refute all first '13' questionz only then I would consider about the possibility of a Separate Soverign State... Oopz a Colony. Are we not discussing about the praciticaliblity of the whole idea or just building castles in thin Air... ? In simple termz my question is: How would Indiaz take that Soverign State ? And How would this state be known to the whole world... As a country or what ? You would say that we damn care what the Indianz think about it... But it matterz to Sikhz putting up in India, who would have to face the wrath of the insult that would be metted to Indianz, in case, we declare a separate soverign state... may that be even somewhere in South America or Marz... Please enlighten me, Sir !!! Humbly

Ok!! first let us discuss: What is the purpose of Gurmat Campz?

Dear Friendz, with utmost respect to "noble" views of everybody, I would like to be a part of this debate... So with your permission... Dear Freedon Fighter, you are talking in terms of IDEAL conditionz... but thingz do not generally take shape like this in reality... Just by bullying & making derogatory on otherz, we can not influence anybodyz opinion... Itz called Supression... and itz a useless phenonmenon... Do you think you are the first person who has coined this idea... somebody informed in this thread that Equador had offered to Sikhs to buy some land from them in 1985... 1. What were the facts that lead to the dropping of that Idea...? I have been watching this thread... Dear FF, just honestly tell yourself how many of the personz debating in this thread have actually changed their opinionz and shited to your perspective ? NO ONE... So whatz the logic in investing so much energy in writing such forceful and offensive replies... NOTHING !!! Why are you not ready to face any criticizm...? Remember: Any good plan is ready to be implimented only when it is baked in criticizm... time and again... ie. it is critically acclaimed... Instead of arguing un-necessarily: Let allow everybody come to have a look at the blue printz and cricially analyze it... We can not launch such a big project on our own... for that we need to think and work as a team to produce some forceful dialogue... Well !! On the face of it the plan seemz to be pretty much practical... Let me start from step number ONE ie. ============================== A. WE WILL BUY A ISLAND... ============================== But before that first of all we have to remove all the hindrances that would come in our way... Friendz!! I am not at all discouraging anybody... Just representing the facts as they come to my mind... so some of the queries may be out of sequence... kindly bear with by logic... Ok here I go... 2. How are we gonna convince the Sikhz to migrate to a remote alien Island... ? 2a. How are we gonna educate them about this... ? 3. How many of them would actually be ready to relinquish their acres of landz in villages or their pakka homes in townz and their jobz and pensionz and what not...? 4. How is this venture gonna be advertised in General Sikh Public...? 5. Dont you think as soon as we would announce our planz, extremistz groups would become active to take advantage of the situation...? They would start wielding their swords and blazing gunz... 6. Are you aware that once we declare that Sikhs have a separate Soverign Entity, the Sikhz putting up in India would become alienz in their homelandz... coz they would have got no valid visaz to visit India...? They could be prosicuted on the suspicion of Spying coz they know so much about the mainland of India and its configuration...? 6a. Dont you think that Sikhz would be put up in Jails like those Concentration Campz being considered as traitors...? 7. Once we are declared aliens, would we be able to dispose off our belongingz...? I am afraid, there would be no taker for it...? 8. Without valid Visaz how are we supposed to land on our Sikh Island... ? 9. Are you aware that most of Sikhz working in Army would be court-marshalled at first instance... ? 10. Are you aware that jobs of the working people would be gone in no time and their saving of lifetime would be confusicated...? Would Sikhz be mentally ready for all this...? 11. Are you aware that all properties of the Sikhz would be confusicated and no compensation would be given...? 12. Once we have aquired a Island... Do you think Indian Government would wait for Sikhs to complete the construction of that Island and then deport all sikhz to that Island...? 12a. Won't they throw out all the Sikhz out of Indian boundaries at first instance...? I guaurantee you that no Nation would come to rescue us in that case... coz India is now the most powerful emerging power in this New World Order and nobody can now dare to question Indiaz Authority...? 13. How much time and space it would take to complete the task of building such a Island... ? Probably a quarter to half of a millenium...? Is it worthwhile...? It is much easier for companies to make small islands as their basez coz factories dont take too much space to accommodate 500-100 people. But to accomodate millionz of Sikhz itz not easy to apprehend... This list is not at all exaustive, I will add up my queries as they come to my mind... Ok Now we move to our first Step... butofcourse only after we have removed all the above hindrances... ================================================================================================ STEP ONE A. WE WILL BUY A ISLAND... the following issues need to addressed towardz achieving the first step... ================================================================================================ 14. Can anybody tell me what are the optionz we have? I hope its not liek Alaska... ssssssso much cold... no sun for six monthz... no nightz for six monthz... I wont even pay a penny for such a land... USA bought it so that they could launch their NASA programmes without any interfarence from Russia... 15. Ok, Now what we have bought an Island... a simple question really: What would be the name of that Island... ? What about Sikherica, SikhLand, Sikistan, Sikhasia... Kindly suggest... 16. What would be status of the natives already living there for centuries...? 17. Wont they protest against this Invasion...? 18. How would we treat the agitating Natives...? 19. Would they be treated as first grade Citizenz like the rest of the Sikhz or ab-originalz... the outcastz...? 20. How would we tackle them ? There is a possibility that they may revolt againt us... Then we will definitely supress them... and hence the bloodshed... 21. Would they be treated as slaves...? 22. Would they be forced to convert into Sikhism...? 23. Does SGGS advocate forced conversionz... ? 24. What if they refuse to embrace Sikhism...? 25. Would they be put in jailz and tortured til they die or embrace Sikhism... ? 26. Then what would we do when they would lodge protests with UN against the atrocities by Sikhs (sounds wierd)? This list too is not at all exaustive, I will add up my queries as they come to my mind... And ofcourse Steel Bangle said... I would ofcourse continue... Regardz

A person who could not become a Indian Sikh... How could he become a American Sikh or a French Sikh ? The term "NRI Sikhz" coverz all these identities combined...

I am not letting down anybody...

Hey Guyz !! Please dont forget me to call for Kar Seva when the construction beginz...

Please discuss what should be the ingrediantz of a Ideal Religion ? What are your viewz... ?

<edited> Admin Note: Lets not bring your personal dislike for each other onto the board, if you want to settle this do it over msn or pm

Oh yaa guyz you are right... for very intelligent persons I mean people like yourself every question is a dumb question coz you know everything but there are otherz who would like to know much on this issue... Here is a research on about the AGE Limit at which we can donate our body organz:: It is just that We should be bold enough to be ready to donate... By donating your organs and tissue you can help 50 people regain life. Your heart and lungs can help one breathe again; your kidneys can free two people from having to undergo dialysis. Donating your liver can save the life of someone who's been on a waiting list, your corneas can allow two people to see again. Your bones and skin can repair damaged joints and heal those who have been burned severely