tonyhp32

Typical taqqiya. One the signs of the day of Judgement in Islam is that the Muslims will fight the Jews and that even the stones and trees will cry out to the Muslims to tell them that there is a Jew hiding behind them and to tell them to kill the Jews.

The Hindus in Pakistan are mainly Sindhis living in Sindh and when they go migrate to India they usually end up either in Gujarat or Mumbai as there are large Sindhi communities there. The Hindus in West Punjab and NWFP are about the same number as the Sikhs there so if they are given citizenship you are talking about 20,000+ people which is not a huge number. There are a lot of Christians in West Punjab but as there was never a migration of Christians in 1947, India does not have any responsibility of them and given the ruckus the Christians in Batala created a few days ago, I doubt the Hindus and Sikhs in Punjab would want these Christians to come over. If the discussion is over exchange of population then Malerkota's Muslims can be kicked out and these Sikhs and Hindus settled there.

Seems like the Danes are waking to the realities of having allowed a large number of workshy, misogynistic, homophobic and arrogant people into their country. It comes to something when traditionally open and tolerant societies have flipped 90 degrees amd become more and more right wing. As for the media portrayal of Muslims, it ranges from the realistic 'undercover mosque' and generation jihad type expose programmes to the arse licking islam is a peaceful religion type bukwas programmes like 'Muslim Driving School' and 'Sharia Tv'

This action is in line with their beliefs that the lives of non-Muslims are only safe if they pay Jizya to the Muslims. No doubt some idiot will come on here and claim that Islam is a religion of peace but only dhimmis believe that in this day and age. Here's a few videos of what the technology of the west is doing to the Taliban and hopefully the malesh of did this to Sikhs will also suffer the same fate soon. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1cf_1259700634

As for Maharaja Ranjit Singh's kingdom, you are probably right that the law was much stricter on the fringes of his kingdom than in the core areas of Gujranwala-Lahore-Jullundur. The agricultural classes were treated leniently. On the Afghan frontier the tax collection took the form of a general invasion in which the Sikh army would forcibly take away the produce and livestock of the frontier villages in much the same way as a few decades earlier the Misls collected 'Rakhi' from the western UP area.

I was told by the elders in my family that during the 20s and 30s there was also a low number of females for marriage and sometimes a party of men who belonged to one of the wandering tribes such as Ods would come to a village and sell a women from their tribe to one of the Jat batchelors of the village. The expense of the marriage would be borne by the batchelor as would the gifts to the members of her tribe. The 'bride' would then enter the home of her husband and during the night either she would drug her husband or well before he came into her room for his conjugal rights, she would decamp with any valuables from his house and the rest of her tribe would disappear!

Climate change is a scam by governments around the world who are fully aware that there is no hard evidence of it but it's useful for them in order to the tax their populations. Governments will come up with a whole raft of carbon taxes in the next few years.

Aisha did not have any children possibly due to her being married so young. Also she was instrumental along with Ali in the Shia-Sunni split. That's why Shias don't think much of her although Sunnis refer to her the mother of the believers. Interestingly enough, I have read a hadith or account somewhere where she saw that allah's revelations to Mohammed were coming conveniently whenever he was in a sticky situation. She said 'your lord hastens to meet your needs' or something like that. So she may have been more intelligent than people give her credit for.

When the man Muslims claim to be a prophet married a child of 6 at the age of 51 then how can anyone stop these same things happening amongst his followers? Mohammed's actions are held up to be an example for all Muslims to follow. On another thread the Naumuslim Bahadur attempted to show that Aisha was much older but the truth is that Bukhari hadiths show she was 6 years old at the time of marriage and 9 at consumation. Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old. Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88 Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Let's be honest here and not fall for the same old excuse of casteism. These chamars have received all the benefits of reservation and yet even the richest chamars will still want more and more. Educated Jat girls with B.Ed and M.ed degrees in the villages can't get jobs as teachers but chamar girls even ones who have failed their degrees through reservation can get jobs as teachers. The chamars get their education free and school books free but Jat girls have to pay for their books. Chamars on the birth of a daughter get a shagun on rs 5100 but Jats do not. Isn't that real discrimination? Jats arent all big farmers, majority eek out a bare existence and get no help from the state. If the electricity is free then the govt puts up the cost of fertiliser. I think people like Dalsingh101 need to take their blinkers off or at least take time out to know the facts before using the same old lame excuse about chamars being discriminated against. A few years ago I too would have put it down to discrimination but when you see chamars taking most of the reservation pie even to the detriment of other lower castes like Mazhabis and others then you understand that the reason is altogether different. This is a political act mostly led by chamars from Jullundur with money from NRI chamars. In Malwa the chamars have no such political aim although some may go with this religion here but mostly it will be chamars of doaba who will leave. To be honest most of these people had already declared themselves to be Hindus and Ad Dharmis in the last few censuses so it is unlikely that Sikh percentage will fall much. These chamars want their cake and eat it. The Sikh leadership if it had any sense should make sure that any chamar declaring himself as belonging to the Ravidass religion is now not eligible for reservation and other benefits because he is neither a Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist as these are the only religions for which reservations can be given. Lets see how long these chamars remain in theri new religion once the money stops flowing!

There's positives and negatives with the new arrivals. It's good that the Sikh population of places like Southall has increased otherwise it was a case of all the older Sikh residents moving out of Southall and Pakistanis moving in. In the last decade or so many Pakistanis moved into Southall and these people were also coming on work visas or settlement visas. The apnay that are here are just coming the same as the Pakistanis did 10 years ago. The negatives is that the freshies come here with totally unrealistic expectations of what life is like in the UK. The freshies that arrived here first have all had great success as most now own their own building/roofing firms and many work as double glazing installers. When the first set of freshies go on holiday to India they start flashing their cash around and start to build lavish kothis and then the other people there start to think that it's easy pickings in England. The problem is that these guys have spent so much money on agents and visas that they have next to nothing when they arrive here. Not only do most have no money for rent but straight away the relatives back home start to expect money to be sent back! I have seen cases where freshies have arrived at peoples houses without even a warning and then expect to be housed and fed just because they are some bhua di dhee dey munday da sala or something like that! Once that guys been found and job and a place to rent, the very next day some other relative arrives from the pind! We as Sikhs born or those who came here in the 70s owe these guys even if in some cases they can seem to be ungrateful. Whenever some job needs doing around the house, I will always use a freshie on a dihari preferably a turbanned one. It's up those Sikhs with businesses to hire these guys long term. It is good that we have the system of Langar so that none of these guys should go hungry or have to beg on the streets. I know enough freshies and most are able to find a job within a few weeks.

Try this shabad. Try and recite it 11 times before you go into the place where you work. After a while you should be able to memorise it and recite it everyday. I have personally found that it helps greatly in situations such as yours. ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Gauree, Fifth Mehl: ਥਿਰੁ ਘਰਿ ਬੈਸਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਪਿਆਰੇ ॥ Remain steady in the home of your own self, O beloved servant of the Lord. ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਕਾਜ ਸਵਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ The True Guru shall resolve all your affairs. ||1||Pause|| ਦੁਸਟ ਦੂਤ ਪਰਮੇਸਰਿ ਮਾਰੇ ॥ The Transcendent Lord has struck down the wicked and the evil. ਜਨ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਰਖੀ ਕਰਤਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ The Creator has preserved the honor of His servant. ||1|| ਬਾਦਿਸਾਹ ਸਾਹ ਸਭ ਵਸਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੀਨੇ ॥ The kings and emperors are all under his power; ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮ ਮਹਾ ਰਸ ਪੀਨੇ ॥੨॥ he drinks deeply of the most sublime essence of the Ambrosial Naam. ||2|| ਨਿਰਭਉ ਹੋਇ ਭਜਹੁ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥ Meditate fearlessly on the Lord God. ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਕੀਨੋ ਦਾਨੁ ॥੩॥ Joining the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, this gift is given. ||3|| ਸਰਣਿ ਪਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ॥ Nanak has entered the Sanctuary of God, the Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts; ਨਾਨਕ ਓਟ ਪਕਰੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥੪॥੧੦੮॥ he grasps the Support of God, his Lord and Master. ||4||108| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76Iqf82O5u4&feature=related

The Sikh princely states could easily have formed the basis of a Sikh state if the Sikh leadership had presented their case in a unifed manner. The Sikh States were about half the size of present Punjab. There was no need for a numerical majority as it was the decision of the State ruler to decide what state he wished to join. With regard to the British, as they were considered the paramount power for the princely states then their departure meant that the states could revert back to their pre-British status. Gandhi, Nehru and Mountbatten bullied the rulers to accept India and Pakistan as successor states to the British and hence remain in a subordinate position again. Had there been an intelligent Sikh leadership they could have lobbied the British to make the states a basis for Khalistan and then have districts with a predominent Sikh population join the states. This demand would not have been undemocratic as the with the other states the ruler of the state had the final say. The non-Muslim majority districts of East Punjab would have had no option but to join the Sikh state apart from Kangra district which could have joined India. The upshot of this would have been that India would have had no access to Kashmir and hence it would have become a part of Pakistan. The Punjabi speaking areas given the Haryana and HP would have never been removed from Punjab and the rivers water would never have been stolen by Haryana. The Sikhs had much more bargaining power than even their leaders knew.

Dalsingh101 Although I don't agree with the statement that all Hindus in Punjab are enemies of the Sikhs, yet it is a fact that some of the staunchest opponents of Punjab rights such as control over river waters, Chandigarh, Punjabi speaking areas etc were Punjabi Hindus usually of the Arya Samaji variety. Ironically the family of Bhagat Singh were also staunch Arya Samajis. His uncle has tried to cause mischief in the Canal Colonies in 1907 amongst the Sikh peasants. You need to understand the statement by the AISSF in the background of what was happenining. You had Bluestar a few years before and then the 1984 organised pogroms. Even in Punjab some Hindu groups had attempted to create a Delhi type situation in the larger cities of Punjab. Only the fear of the surrounding villages kept them back. A year before the Hindus in Batala had attacked Sikhs and the Sikhs villages around Batala had laid siege to the town. Around the time of the documentary, Hindus had started to flee the rural areas of Amritsar-Gurdaspur for Haryana and Delhi. So the atmosphere was communalised and for the common Sikhs not only was he harrassed by the CRFP Hindu police but also the Punjab police. I think the tame talk of not wanting Khalistan and other confusing statements do not show the true picture of Punjab in the 1987 -88 period. In 1988 Sikhs openly talked of Khalistan. Even the Hindus were convinced that Khalistan was coming. In 1988 we needed to get some revenue documents from the Patwari's office in Jagraon, the Hindu patwari there complained of how the filing system was totally obsolete, the Sikh Patwari said he didn't know when, if ever the files would be organised better, the Hindu retorted that when Khalistan comes all files will be reorganised. He wasn't making a sarcastic statement. Travelling by bus in early evening at the end of the route when there were virtually no Hindu passengers, the Sikh conductor started to talk about how the Hindu myths are all about their gods fighting for women but the Gurus and Gursikhs always fought for justice and equality. In 1989 when I was back there although the Kharkus had been forced from the Durbar Sahib in operation Black Thunder yet the atmosphere was still of Khalistan becoming an eventual reality. I was in Punjab in Nov-Dec 1989 and that was when Simranjeet Singh Mann's Akali Dal won 6 seats in the Lok Sabha elections by themselves and 2 seats of independents they supported. The Badal Akali had lost their deposits in all the seats they stood for.

The past election reports are available on the election commission of india site http://eci.nic.in/eci_main/StatisticalReports/ElectionStatistics.asp scroll down to the relevant state

From the date of the meeting, the documentary seems to have been filmed in April 1987. I was in India a year after in 1988 and I can tell you no one was interested in what the Communists or Kaamraids have to say in Punjab. The film is a propaganda piece at a time when the Communists were fully backing the Indian state against the movement. Remember 1987 was when the Soviet Union was still in existence and funds from the party in Moscow would be forthcoming for the indoctrination of the rural population in Punjab. The two parties mentioned in the film, CPI and CPM did have some political clout in Punjab in the late 70s when educated Sikh youths would be more likely to be involved in communist activities than in the Akali Dal. This all changed when the AISSF was led by Bhai Amrik Singh and who turned the inclinations of these youths towards Sikh politcs and Panthic concerns. The decline of communism in Punjab has been dramatic since the 1970s. The vote share in the assembly elections for both of these parties shows that for the most part Punjabis whether Sikh or Hindu have rejected the class struggle politics of these parties. Election 1969 -- 1972 -- 1977 -- 1980 -- 1985 -- 1992 -- 1997 -- 2002 -- 2007 % of votes 7.91 -- 9.91 -- 10.09 -- 10.52 -- 4.45 -- 6.04 -- 4.77 -- 2.51-- 1.04 No of seats won --6 -- 11 -- 15 -- 14 -- 1 -- 5 -- 2 -- 2 -- 0 The results for 1992 election is skewed due to the low turnout of 23%

and you couldn't wait to come on here to ask for more info! You remind of the little kid who runs around the playground shouting "Fight! Fight!" when two of the bigger kids are having a fight. What a joke you are.

My vocabulary was good because I had been reading papers like Des Pardes and Awaz-e-quam for over a decade. Reading newspapers is a very good way to pick up new vocabulary although I have noticed that at present more and more seem to be using many English words instead of their Punjabi counterparts.

I attempted mine whilst a Uni in 1996 same a Jattboot and it was while I was in the final year. I went to the lessons but never took the exam, all I can remember is that it is very much like English A level, the books I read were by Nanak Singh and can't remember the rest. The problem I had was that I can read Punjabi but when I write it, then I did it with a Malwai dialect, turning Daswin to Dasma, soday for Tuhade etc and that's a no no in Punjabi A level.

The only thing that disappointed me was that there was virtually no mention of Congress party hand in the killings in Nov 84. Although the fact that the Police stood by was pointed out but nothing of criminals who led the mobs and provided them with kerosene and tyres as well as using voters lists to identify Sikh homes. If you notice the large painting which the Singhs in Delhi showed Sonia, there is a figure in black shades pointing out the Sikh homes and he seems to look like HKL Bhagat. All in all it was a good effort and think it was the best we could expect for the 'unbiased BBC'. In the early 90s there was a similar programme off a family of coconut Singhs who was taking his kids to Punjab to reconnect with their heritage. That idiot keep going on about the 'terrorism problem' in Punjab. I just switched off. Apparently there is a discussion regarding the programme at 7pm on Sikhchannel Sky 840. I was pleasantly surprised that Sonia Deol was so affected by what she learnt and I think it was genuine. For a TV programme to do full justice to the Sikh cause then it would have to start from 1947 and the promises that were made by the Congress party but then it would be impossible to include all that within an hour long programme. The programme won't change many of the entrenched views held by Hindus about Sikhs but it should allow Sikhs born after 1984 to want to learn more about what happened. That can only be a positive thing. If the victims forget the atrocities then it is as if they never happened. That is the challenge before us. The first step in liquidating a people is to erase its memory: Destroy its books, its culture, its history. Then have somebody write new books, manufacture a new culture, invent a new history. Before long the nation will begin to forget what it is and what it was. The world around it will forget even faster. Milan Hubl

She is the single example of a forced marriage in the Sikh community. She got some kind of award recently because she runs some kind of womens refuge. Her parents took her to India and got her married off by force. she obviously wanted to prove them wrong and so ran away and married some next man who was her boyfriend. Her behsti is that that marriage broke down as well so maybe her parents did know what was good for her! Her failure to prove her parents wrong is what impels her hatred of Sikh society.

I think we have to be careful when using examples of the ways Sikhs especially in the post-Guru period acted in certain situations when considering what our response should be in similar situations. Certainly the Sakhi regarding the Hindu Rani is revolutionary when you consider that it was impossible for Muslim women to visit mosques and the general population would keep their women secluded for most of their lives. I remember that even in the late 70s whenever a non-relative would visit another persons house in India, the women of the house would pull their chunnis to cover the side of the face. It's called Ghund Kadna and seems to be an influence from Muslim society which would have been much stronger in previous years. About Dalsingh101's comment about Sikh women wearing Burqas, I have personally never heard of this even though my parents lived through the partition so they would know of the period of 30s and 40s. However there are alway exceptions, I remember seeing a photo online of a Sikh widow whose husband had been martyred during the 2nd world war and she was wearing a burqa where she either received his pension or his medal. The Sikh position on the veil is pretty much dealt with by Bhagat Kabirji.

My condolences go out to his family and friends. One can imagine what a shock his death will be to his wife and child in India. According to media reports he was a well liked Gursikh in the community who was eager to help others. Let's pray that the murderers are caught soon.

A retired American general says what most people will have been thinking in the last few days since the Nigerian Muslim nearly blew the plane up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXfnjkxBTrk&feature=player_embedded#

Yaar toon no samjh-ing. Dogging no mean walking the kuttay, dogging mean what goray karring when they dekhing the other goray doing badthings. Pulees no kujh doing jay goray badthings doing in bushes (kankan dey ohlay). Jay doing in footpath fer pulees rapat darjing. Apology the giving veerji, me no pata parade and walking different. Hun main samjh-ing. Veerji je police naal milling fer kaho 'gud marning affsar..wat seeming to be a problem' pulees respect daying je desi gud the rani di ingleesh boling.