SAadmin
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I simply want the proper respect shown.
showing respect comes in different forms for different people..no one is at same dedication level..we had people in guru maharaj time thought of him as mere fakir.. some even throw stones at guru maharaj ji... this world is like that..but first we need to change ourselves in order to make a change in soceity.. in that state , it will reflected on soceity automatically.
anyway you are doing great seva for bringing awareness when it comes to these minor issues...just because it's a minor issue that does not mean we should over look them.
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From Heart to Heart: Yoga takes a consciousness to a higher level
By Harinder Kaur
For The Register-Guard
Sat Nam.
I am a Turkish-American Sikh woman teaching Italian at the University of Oregon. I came a long way to realize myself as an individual, a wife, a mother and a spiritual being. The open-mindedness and acceptance I found in Eugene is a true blessing for me. The physical journey was worth every single mile of it.
The population of Turkey (my country of origin) is nearly 97 percent Muslim. My family did not practice religion. This did not mean I was deprived of learning about God and being prayerful, which is the kind of person I have always been. Even as a child I strongly felt the presence of a guiding light in my own heart as well as in others. I prayed for everyone to find that light and be guided by it to live in peace and harmony with themselves and one another.
After going through the transformational teenage years, my life's journey brought me to Eugene. While I was studying at the UO, I started practicing Kundalini Yoga. Besides improving my overall mental and physical well-being, this ancient science started to take my consciousness to higher levels.
One morning I woke up, then closed my eyes again and had a crystal clear vision. I was standing on a mountain with a bright sky. Turned to the heavens, I saw two hands cupped, carrying a big ball of light. They gave the ball of light to me and I was told to carry this source of light and to give it to everyone. I took it.
A few years later I found my true source of light, my guru, in the Sikh Dharma. The word "guru" creates confusion for some people. It simply means "teacher," the one who brings you from "darkness" (gu) to "light" (ru). It is the cosmic/teacher/consciousness that resides in every heart, the source of light itself.
When I asked my spiritual teacher, Yogi Bhajan, for my spiritual name, he blessed me with the name Harinder - "Har" meaning "God" and "Inder" meaning "the light that comes from within."
For Sikhs, the guru is embodied in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib, a compilation of poems of saintly beings who spoke of their experience of the light after coming out of deep meditation.
The guru is in a special place adorned with flowers. We go to the feet of the guru and bow. Our forehead touches the ground and we open our consciousness to merge with the consciousness of the guru.
It is a time and place where all differences dissolve, including the ones we carry within our individual selves: fears, emotions, worries, anger and attachment. We come out of it with the experience of guru, the expression of ecstasy in consciousness put into sounds. This is where I find my source of light, where my physical journey ends and my spiritual journey begins.
May the pure light within all guide our way. Sat Nam (a salutation used by Sikhs meaning, "Truth is My Identity").
Harinder Kaur represents Sikh Dharma on the planning committee for the Interfaith Prayer & Reflection services held on the 11th day of each month. This column is coordinated by Two Rivers Interfaith Ministries, a network of more than 35 spiritual traditions. For more information, call 344-5693 or visit www.interfaitheugene.org.
RELIGION
FROM HEART TO HEART
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interesting point veer ji.
Also since we are at it - we should look say full fateh- VahiguroojikakhalsaVahiguroojikifateh instead of gurfateh, fateh, VJKK VJKF.
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debate continuse...
singh2 to lalleshvari
Bhai sahib ji
A little query from me.
When you say that anand ceremony was started by Nirmalas.Are you saying that Baba Dayal ji of Rawalpindi was also a nirmala.I read that he was a Nirankari(Those Nirankaris are different from the present offshoot who had tiff with sikhs in 1978).
Dr Man Singh ji Nirankari is from their family.He writres a lot on sikhi.
The battle was at Chillianwala near Gujarat distt. in Pakistan now.Sikh forces were under the command of Sher Singh attariwala.Of course Bhai Maharaj Singh was one of the main commanders.Sikhs had defeated English in that battle.
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lallehsvari to singh2
Gurfateh
Bhai Dayal Singh Nirankari was not a Nirmala but it was the Nirmala dera of the Thakurian Nirmalas which allowed to show the Anand ceremony to the Sikh Panth for the first time in Amritsar. Thus they the Nirmalas helped in the strugglke for the recognition of the Anand Karaj.
There are two types of Nirankaris which people confuse very often: the Asli Nirankaris (those of Baba Dayal Singh who are Sikhs) based in Chandigarh today and the Nakli Nirankari (founded by Bhuta Singh) who are heretics excommunicated in 1978. A CURSE ON THE NAKLI NIRANKARIS AS THEY HAVE DONE (AND STILL DO) SO MUCH HARM TO THE PANTH.
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lalleshvari to singh2 again
Gurfateh
on a more humourous note Bhai Sahib, nothing prevents you from having the same knowledge as Nirmalas teach everyone for free as Guru Gobind Singh wanted but maybe you're not up for the effort and challenge. PAIN AND EFFORT ARE THE TUITION OF KNOWLEDGE.
IF YOU THINK EDUCATION IS EXPENSIVE THEN TRY IGNORANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gur Bar Akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllll
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mssingh504 to lalleshvari
Bahadar Singh Nirmala Ji
You have not read any thing which is written by Gurbakhsh Singh Kalaafghana. I know, why you are so upset with Gurbakhsh Singh, because he completely rejected the idea that Guru Gobind Singh sent Sikhs to Kashi to learn about what-ever. Here is his wrting about Nirmalas. (You can download by Right clicking and select Save Target As.)
I also request to the Sikhs that, to understand Anti Sikh forces, you must know the principles of Guru Granth Sahib. All 10 Guru Sahib has practically lived their life according to Guru Granth Sahib. No true Sikh ever can doubt the “kehani te karani†(saying & doing) of Guru Sahib. If you read the above link, you will agree with me that Guru Gobind Singh Ji never ever sent Sikhs to Kashi for learning, they themselves rejected the Kashi's education in Guru Granth Sahib. Do not believe everything, which comes across, “Every thing glitters, is not a Goldâ€.
I will appreciate you comments.
Guru Fateh.
Manjit Singh Sahota
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lalleshvari to mssingh504
Gurfateh,
Dear Mr Sahotah
First of all, I have read Kala Afghana's writings as I am a Sikh scholar. From a strictly historical point of view they are absolute rubbish (to use an euphemism). His declaration that Guru Gobind Singh never sent Sikhs to Benares has no historical proof as all the historical sources point towars this fact. The first Nirmala establishement was created in 1710 by Sant Dargah Singh who accompanied Baba Binod Singh and Banda Bahadar to Panjab. All the historical records prove this.
Kala Afghana's books are guided by blind positivist populist ideology. I am personnaly no fan of the SGPC or the Sikh politicians but Kala Afghana is just the tip of the ice birg of a whole movement of pseudo-scholarship amongst the Sikh community which threatens the very cohesion of the Panth. Because of such people whole sections of Sikh heritage have been destroyed. The holy bani of Dasam Granth Darbar and Sarabloh Granth Darbar. In fact because of anti-Sikh forces even the Ragmala started being doubted as part of bani. LET ME REMIND EVERYONE HERE THAT ANYONE WHO DOUBTS ANY PART OF BANI LIKE RAGMALA IS A SINNER AND A TRAITOR TO MAHARAJ. ANYONE WHO SAYS THAT RAGMALA IS NOT BANI SHALL GET HIS FACE BLACKENED IN MAHARAJ'S DARBAR. IT IS THE DUTY OF NIRMALAS, DAMDAMI TAKSAL, NIHANG AND UDASIS TO DEFEND THE INTEGRITY OF BANI AGAINST ALL THE FORCES OF IGNORANCE WHO TRY TO DESTROY SIKHI FROM THE INSIDE. WE WILL DEFEND BANI WITH OUR SOUL AND OUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GUR BAR AKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
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mssingh504 to lalleshvari
lalleshvari Ji
Can you explain as Sikh Scholar what you have written and published, so I can read & decide about your scholar nature.
Secondly I can clearly see that you are dodging the Shabads of Guru Granth Sahib which discard the notion of Nirmalas and “Parchine Panth Parkash†in which there is no hint about Nirmalas.
Thirdly Akhand Kirtini Jatha is the one, who is saying about Ragmala is not a part of Guru Granth Sahib and I agree with them. My reason of agreeing with them is this, in “Gurbilas Patshahi 6th†it is stressed that if someone do not read the Ragmala, then there is no use of reading the complete Guru Granth Sahib, only person will be blessed by Guru is when you read Ragmala with it. There is knowledge in the Ragmala.
Nirmalas & Udasis has no place in Sikh Panth, unless they abide by Gurmat principles i.e. no hair cut, no ‘bhang & afeem’ drugs, no Sri Mahant etc.
You have mentioned “NIRMALAS, DAMDAMI TAKSAL, NIHANG AND UDASISâ€, which one you belong to?
Guru Fateh
Manjit Singh Sahota
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lalleshvari to mssingh504
DEAR Sahota,
I am a Nirmala. Giani Gian Singh's Panth Prakash and Bhai Santokh Singh's Guru Pratap Suraj Granth will give the histor of the foundation of the Nirmalas. ALL NIRMALAS ARE KESHDHARI AND MOST ARE AMRITDHARI.
IF YOU DON'T RECOGNISE RAGMALA AS BANI THEN I AM SORRY BUT YOU ARE NOT MY FELLOW SIKH. YOU ARE SURELY A NANAKPANTHI LIKE ALL THESE RADHASOAMIS ETC... BUT YOU ARE INSULTING MAHARAJ AND MY DISCUSSION WITH YOU HAS TO STOP AS MY MARYADA DOES NOT ALLOW ME TO INTERACT WITH TRAITORS TO THE PANTH.
GUR BAR AKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
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singh2 to lalleshvari
Bahadur singh ji
Please do not get upset.As already stated Nirmalas are a part of Sikh Panth.One has to read sikh history.
You have raised a very valid point.How can a person interpret Bani of Dasam Granth ji without having knowledge of Braj Bhasha,Persian and Sanskrit.
Folks let us be realistic.name calling will not help.
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Basically I save this debate long time ago. I thought i lost but I was going through my inbox today finally found it. I hope lalleshvari veer does not mind that i m posting this (if he does please send me pm, i ll remove this thread). I feel knowledge is for everyone.
Lalleshvari repond to singh2 on Nirmalas.
Gurfateh,
It is your right to disagree with my comment but it is unacceptable from your part to doubt Maharaj's intentions. Before writing his Varan Bhai Gurdas had to receive training in Benares, Bhai Mani Singh received his training from the first Nirmalas who were sent to Benares by Guru Gobind Singh. All the great Sikh scholars of pre-SGPC times were able to produce remarquable intellectual work due to their training. Try to find a Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranvale amongst those new nakli scholars. By the way this is NOT BRAHMANICAL AT ALL for if it was brahmanical it would be birth that decides who becomes a scholar. SIKHI BELIEVES IN MERITOCRACY not in teach yourself Gurbani in two months!!!!! Nirmalas made education free and available for all unlike the Brahmins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You have insulted the Nirmala sampradaya by calling Nirmale "masands". We Nirmalas have spread Sikhi throughout India and we actively participated in the anti-British movement as well as the Singh Sabha movement at the time where the Lahore Singh Sabha did not even exist. Bhai Maharaj Singh Nirmala beat the British in 1849 (long before the Indian Mutiny) and led the Sikh resistance against the British before he got betrailed. Sant Attar Singh Mastuanavale was a Nirmala himself. Whilst "Giani" Ditt Singh (himself an ex-Arya Samaji and ex-Gulabdasi) was still performing brahmanical rituals with Swami Dayananda and the Arya Samaj, it was Sant Nihal Singh Thoha Khalsa who beat Dayananda during public debates in Amritsar. Your comments on Nirmalas and Udasis (legitimate orders created by Maharaj himsekf) are disgustingand unacceptable. If you believe that scholars are not needed in Sikhi I suggest you invent time travel and change Sikh history. Utterly disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gur Bar Akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllll BIR RAS DE NAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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singh2 response to lalleshvari
I have not much knowledge about nirmalas but i do believe they did a lot of good work in spreading sikhi to different parts of India.Any organisation that spreads sikhi is praiseworthy.It is nonsense to bad mouth any sikh organisation out of phobiac thinking.
Nirmalas are clssified as Sikhs.
Bhai shib i know they did good work in the field of education. Migit scholars may not anything about them.Please don't feel bad.I have a question for you. Was Sant Nischal Singh ji of Yamuna Nagar was also a nirmala.I know he did a little of work in education field in that area.
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lalleshvari respond to singh2
To Singh2
Gurfateh
On Sant Niscal Singh of Yamuna Nagar I will check, if you have any questions on Nirmale or puratan sampradayas here is my email lalleshvari108@hotmail.com
pyar de nal
Bahadar Singh Nirmala
Gur Bar Akal
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singhnew to lalleshvari
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
Bhai Sahib Ji, I heard about the spread of Sikhi by Nirmalas. But when I traversed the breadth of India. I didn’t find the spread anywhere. The Sikh that I met in towns and streets were of Punjabi origin and didn’t see masses in UP, Bihar, W. Bengal, MP, Maharashtra and Rajisthan following Sikhi. There were a few Sikhs of local origin in Hazoor Sahib and some one told me that they were the offspring of Sikhs that came with Sache Patshah Guru Gobind Singh Ji and stayed behind after the Great Master left this world. These Sikhs married local people and that’s how they stayed Sikh. There is some work going on by local Sikh Sangat in various parts of India.
The Sikligar and Vanjaaras about whom we have read in recent years have no knowledge of Guru Sahiban after the Sixth Master Sacha Patshah Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib. So I don’t see any relationship of Nirmalas filling their duty if they claim so, given to them by the tenth Master Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Preaching to Choir is nothing new.
Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us Sri Guru Granth Sahib as our Guru and there is no need for any clergy to interpret it, as it is so beautiful and simple to understand. But I think the problem comes for clergy who will be unemployed once the masses realize how easy it is and that what I think is prompting protection of the turf by interested parties.
Bhul Chuk Maaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
Gurbhajan Singh
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singh2 response to lalleshvari
bhai sahib ji
I don't know if you are knowing or not but nirmalas have done a lot of work for sikhi in the states of Bihar and UP.I came across a post once that i will post for your reference on this topic.
They were posted at benares by Guru ji to acquire Vedic knowledge and learn sanskrit so that while on missionary activities they can argue effectively and counter knowledge of brahmins to avoid pitfalls.
Also once there was a chief minister of Maharashtra VP naik.he wrote that while he was a kid, he remembers going to Nanded to pay respects at Gurdwara because his parents were believing in sikhi.But it has not been followed up by sikhs later and these people have gone back to hindu religion.
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lalleshvari to singhnew
Gurfateh
Dear Gurbhajan Singh,
Nirmalas have first of all concentrated their activity in Sindh where they converted a lot of people to Sikhi. If you haven't seen masses of Sikhs outside of Panjab it's because the Nirmala order has been marginalised by the Lahore Singh Sabha and the Akalis who seized their deras trying to destroy their activity. When the Nirmala sampradaya comes back to life from Hazur Sahib to Patna you will see Sikhs everywhere as people are thirsting for Sikhi!!!
Guru Granth Sahib is far from simple to understand and one does need knowldege to interpret it as there are many passages in Marathi, Sahaskriti, Braj etc... If you pretend to be able to understand these passages without training then I suggest you try to be in the next XMen 3. Sikhi was born in a highly refined and elite atmosphere but the Gurus wanted to bring that elite culture to everyone. Nirmalas are simple people, mostly Jats and are far from being elitists. We believe that everyone has the right to have a high quality and classical education. Modern Sikhs owe a lot to the Nirmalas but it seems that only the lazy underdogs don't like Nirmalas. Before you criticise Nirmalas or Udasis get the same level of education!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I doubt you are fit for that challenge!!!!!
EFFORT AND PAIN ARE THE TUITION OF KNOWLEDGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF YOU THINK EDUCATION IS EXPENSIVE TRY IGNORANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gur Bar Akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
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singhnew to laleshvari
Bhai Sahib Jio,
As from your explanation that Sindh was the only area of concentration for Nirmalas and then blaming Akalis for disruption. It means that
a) Nirmalas were not up to the Job for the rest of the Indian Subcontinent.
As every knows that in the beginning the Akali movement wanted to correct the Brahaminical influences in the Sikhi. So that means that Nirmalas were practicing those rituals.c) From your statement you wanted to prove that Gurbani is elitist, which I disagree wholeheartedly as I was able to understand by reading the “Steekâ€(description) from various sources including Prof. Sahib Singh’s volumes.
d) Only thing I can agree with you is that any one who need to understand Guru Granth Sahib need to spend some time.
Rest Bhai Sahib, I grew up close to Udasi Deras and used to go to that place every occasion I could. The Aarti they do with lighted lamps in front of Guru Granth Sahib may seem beautiful to a child or an ignorant but once a person start understanding the real meaning of Aarti then it seems silly to do something while chanting something that means exactly opposite. They also perform ardaas with the name of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Baba Sri Chand and Baba Gurdita and no mention of any other Guru Sahiban. So don’t feel offended if the criticism comes from someone who has seen things real close.
I want to do a closure as we have our own set of views and I am not forcing mine on you and you stop doing that and let go the ego that your viewpoint is the only valid one.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
Gurbhajan Singh
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lalleshvari to gurbhajan singh-
Gurfateh
Bhai Sahib Jio,
I am in no way trying to impose my points of view but I am correcting wrong views and facts on the Nirmalas!!! I am a Sikh of the Nirmala Sampradaya and I don't have to justify myself for that. My order was written most of SIkh literature in the 18th and 19th centuries and has beaten the British (Bhai Maharaj Singh 1849 Chehanvala battle) well before the Indian Mutiny, The Ghadar Movement or the Akali Movement. I am a scholar and that's how I serve Maharaj.
1.Nirmalas were present in most of Northern India but when when an order missionises it tends to concentrate on a particular region at a time instead of diluting all its forces everywhere. Focuss is primordial!!!
2. Brahmanical practices can only be termed as such if they are practiced by Brahmins. The notion of Hinduism is an invention of the British Raj. Doing arti in front of Maharaj is a sign of respect shown to kings. If "Hindus" do it in front of idols that's their problem!!! Nirmalas are not Hindus and in fact I believe that there is no such thing as Hinduism.It is precisely to avoid Brahmanism that the Nirmala maryada sates that the head of the order HAS TO BE A JATT: WHERE ARE THE BRAHMINS THEN?????????????
3. Nirmalas played an important role in the Singh Sabha movement as it is well known. The first head Granthi of Harimandir Sahib under the SGPC was Mahant Mul Singh. Many Nirmalas went to prison during the Singh Sabha movement and helped implement the Anand Karaj mariage. The Singh Sabha and the Akali movement are two different things (see Bhagat Lachman Singh's Autobiography).It is the Akalis who started creating trouble between Nirmalas and the SGPC. It is a known fact that Akalis were mainly inspired by Protestantism, which does not believe that knowledge is necessary for exegesis.
4. You talk about Prof Sahib "satik" commentaries. he himself was a scholar of Sanskrit (see Taran Singh's Gurbani dian Viakhian Parnalian). In this you are just the reader of his "sateek" and HE IS THE ONE who interprets it for you. He is the one who understood it first for you. Even then he needed Sanskrit as it shapes your mind for grammatical understanding.
5. The Udasi maryada is extremely old. The arti arta which is practiced by all puratan sampradayas is a sign of respect offered to Kings and in this case Guru Granth Sahib. It is not a child's game at all. Patna Sahib and Hazur Sahib still practice the original maryadas. This has nothing to do with Hinduism as Hinduism does not exist. It is a construct from the British period. The Prophet Muhammad received the Quran from Gabriel (an angel quoted in the Gospels) does that make him a Christian? NO. In the same way Nirmalas are not Hindus but SIKHS. The text of the arti arta is taken from Adi Granth and Dasam Granth. You can find it in the Nihang gutka. You are only refering to the arti (shant ras) of Guru Nanak without taking into account the arta (bir ras) of Guru Gobind Singh ji. You can definitely not say that Nihangs are brahmanical as there are no Brahmins among them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6. I never said Gurbani was ' elitist' but I said it was born in an elite culture. The aim of the Gurus was to educate people to the level of that culture. Maharaj wanted ELITE CULTURE AVAILABLE TO ALL.
7. How can you fight Brahmanism if you don't know Sanskri?. Nirmalas beat the Brahmins on many occasions and proved the superiority of Sikhi. Read Sant Gulab Singh's Mokh Panth Prakash and how he was persecuted by brahmins for making Ramayana and Mahabharata available to lay people.
The puratan sampradayas were created by the Gurus. Who soever slanders them is either ignorant or a manmukh. It is true that some aspects of some sampradayas have to change but this does not mean that they were un-Sikh in fact they were and are the very orthodoxy of Sikhi.
Baba Teja Singh (a well-respected Nirmala Sikh) comments: ‘From 15th century in that time the [Adi] Guru Granth was composed. At that time, the four religious way’s that were existent. There was Gur Matt [sikh Guru’s thinking] in the Punjab, Bhagti Marg [Way of devotion] in South of India, Sufism in the west around Multan, and Vedant which was through out India. Those who believe in Vedas are to be found through out India. These four religious ways deal with one same subject. Bhagti Marg, Sufism, Gurmat and Vedant basically stand on one platform. Alright, I possess knowledge of Vedant. People will say that he speaks Gurbani [Guru’s word which is Dharma] in the manner of Vedant. If Someone is more versed in knowledge of Sufism, he will speak [Guru’s word] in a Sufi manner. If some one has interest in Bhagti Marg studies it he will talk in that manner [Guru’s word]. Some will speak of it [Dharma] in manner of Sikhism. According to each other’s religious learning they speak. But, in terms of foundation, when we look at the four religious ways, their principles are basically one. To have faith in God and to see God in all, this is their subject.’
(Baba Teja Singh, transcript of a recording, 9-03-2001)
Hence Nirmala Scholars easily integrated with the scholars of other religions and philosophies. Nirmalas see themselves as true 'Sam Vadi' (Egalitarians) as opposed to 'Katar Vadi' (religious fanatics).
WE NIRMALAS ARE NOT KATAR PANTHIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mukhti is being free from rebirths..nothing more or less..one needs that desire in starting stage until you become fully imbued with love (Tibar Tam Bairaag) at his charan kamal(naam-dhuni) then only you gain avastha of -
RAAJ NA CHAO, MUKAT NA CHAO
Kingdoms I do not want, salvation i dont desire
MAN PREET CHARAN KAMLAARE
Just let me stay in love with you....
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Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh
There is a very special performance in town that I wanted to let you know about. It’s been a spiritually uplifting experience for me. Please do try to attend and pass on this announcement to others that may be interested.
Sandeep Singh Brar
www.sikhs.org
Come experience a unique opportunity to listen to this Living Treasure performing extremely rare classical Kirtan using such instruments as the Taus, a string instrument used by Guru Gobind Singh. Bhai Avtar Singh is the 11th generation singer of an illustrious family of Ragis that have been performing Kirtan since the time of the third Sikh Guru, Guru Amardas (1479-1574). His repertoire of compositions has the stamp of the style and structure of the singing practiced during the times of the Sikh Gurus and almost extinct today.
The Sikh Gurus wrote Sri Guru Granth Sahib as a musical scripture, breaking down the chapters by Raags which convey different moods and providing detailed musical instructions alongside their poetic composition. Rather than ignoring the Gurus musical instructions and singing Kirtan to Punjabi pop tunes or Hindi film tunes, Bhai Avtar Singh has remained true to the style and structure of the singing practiced during the times of the Sikh Gurus. His singing is marked by an emotionally intense spiritual yearning that is truly unique to listen to.
Listening to this priceless and rare form of Kirtan one is taken back to an earlier time when a devotion to the Sikh musical tradition was a lifelong commitment. Bhai Avtar Singh and his nephew Bhai Swaran Singh on tabla have been performing together since 1946. Since 1999 his son, Bhai Kultar Singh has joined his father to help carry on this priceless family tradition for the benefit of the entire Sikh Panth.
Schedule of Performances in Toronto
Wed May 11 to Fri May 13
6:30pm to 7:30pm Rivalda Rd Gurdwara - 138 Rivalda Road. North York, Tel: (416) 748 9442
8:00pm to 9:00pm Scarborough Gurdwara - 905 Middlefield Rd., Scarborough, Tel: (416) 299 4800
Sat May 14
11:40am - 12:30pm Rivalda Rd. Gurdwara
Sun May 15 to Fri May 20
6:30pm-7:30 pm Rivalda Rd. Gurdwara
8:00pm to 9:00pm Dixie Gurdwara - 7080 Dixie Road, Mississauga, Tel: (905) 670-3311
For further information contact Nampreet Singh at (647) 668-1040 or by email at nampreetsingh@hotmail.com.
Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh
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Here is an picture one more time.
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Enjoy ..
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"Jangnama" is an eye-witness account of Ahmed Shah Durrani's invasion of 1764 of which our knowledge is extremely poor otherwise. The eye-witness was Nur Muhammad, a domicile of Ganjuba in Baluchistan who held the post of Qazi, which he inherited from his father Abdullah Hilwar of Ganjuba. He had some pretentions to being a man of learning, a scholar of Persian and a learned poet. His fame as a man of letters travelled to the city of Kalat, and the ruler of that place, Mir Abdullah Khan asked him to compile a book of his poetry. The suggestion appealed to him and he decided to compose an epic to extol the achievements of Abdullah Khan. The decision, however, had to be abandoned, perhaps because of the death of Khan.
In 1761, he went to Kalat; understandably to get some favours now from Nasir Khan, who had succeeded Abdullah Khan and was seriously thinking of leading a crusade against the Sikhs whose power was increasing, thereby causing anxiety to Ahmed Shah Durrani and the Baluchis . Nur Muhammad now offered to accompany Nasir Khan on his contemplated expedition provided the Khan promised him the post of Qazi in Shikarpore or the Deras. Durrani on his return from Punjab bestowed these territories upon him as a reward for his services. And the Qazi, on his part, undertook to write an account of the Khan's exploits on his holy mission. Nasir Khan accepted his offer and he accompanied the expeditionary force which joined the forces of Ahmed Shah Durrani in the winter of 1764. He was thus an eye-witness to all engagements and his narration of events is based on his personal observations.
On his return to Ganjuba on the conclusion of the expedition, Nur Muhammad completed the Jang Namah towards the close of Al-Hijari corresponding to about June 1765. The work consists of 55 statements called "Bian" in Persian - each dealing with some event, personality, racial group, tactics of war, or the behaviour of the Sikhs. The author has a strong prejudice against the Sikhs whom he remembers in no better words than dogs, dog of hell, pig eaters, accursed infidels, dirty idolaters, fire worshippers, etc., yet his account of the character of the Sikhs of the eighteenth century is simply invaluable to the students of history.
The author is lavish in praise of his mentor and the crusades - both Baluchis and Pathans, sometimes depriving the historical narrative of its objectivity. Further, he reserves a strong hatred for the Sikhs. All these things minimize the historical value of the work. Yet, in spite of this, it is a very valuable and correct corroboration in respect of their struggle against the Afghani invaders, the desecration by the Durranis of their holy tank and temple, the Durbar Sahib (Golden Temple) at Amritsar and the martyrdom of Baba Gurbakhsh Singh Shaheed with his band of 30 Sikhs who valiantly challenged an army of 30,000 Afghanis and Baluchis and sacrificed their lives at the altar of their faith.
It is from the Jang Namah alone that we learn that the Sikhs under the Bhangis had crossed the Indus and had extended their conquest as far as Multan and Deras by the middle of 1764 in a few months after the conquest of Sirhind. Moreover, Jang Namah is the only detailed account, known to us, of the seventh invasion of Punjab by Ahmed Shah Durrani. So far as the Sikhs are concerned Jang Namah is an invaluable source of information. It visualises Sikhism and Sikh society as a separate entity, different from Hinduism. The conviction of Nur Muhammad was fully shared by his mentors, and perhaps, this was the reason that Ahmed Shah Abdali's anger was directed against Darbar Sahib which was the chief source of inspiration to the Sikhs.
The Sikhs offered resistance to Ahmed Shah Abdali in the manner that evoked praise even in the hearts of their detractors. Nur Muhammad in spite of his sympathy for his comrades-in-faith and hatred for the Sikhs could not help describing their excellent conduct, their experience in battlefield, their liberality and their valour, intrepidity, agility and grand physical appearance. This he did most probably to impress upon the soldiers of the invading armies that Sikhs were strong enough to withstand their onslaught because in moral conduct they were excellent and none surpassed them. In his account, he dwells on the qualities of the Sikhs about which every Sikh should feel proud. We present a liberal translation of Qazi Nur Muhammad’s narration which elucidates their (Sikhs) high conduct, their mode of fighting, their faith and courage, etc:
"Do not call the dogs (the Sikhs) dogs, because they are lions (and) are courageous like lions in the battlefield. How can a hero, who roars like a lion be called a dog? (Moreover) like lions they spread terror in the field of battle. If you wish to learn the art of war, come face to face with them in the battlefield. They will demonstrate it (art of war) to you in such a way that one and all will shower praise on them.
If you wish to learn the science of war, O swordsman, learn from them. They advance at the enemy boldly and come back safely after action. Understand, Singh is their title, a form of address for them. It is not justice to call them dogs; if you do not know Hindustani language, then understand that the word 'Singh' means a lion. “Truly, they are lion in battle, and at times of peace, they surpass "Hatim" (in generosity). When they take the Indian sword in their hands they traverse the country from Hind to Sind. None can stand against them in battle, howsoever strong he may be. When they handle the spear, they shatter the ranks of the enemy. When they raise the heads of their spears towards the sky, they would pierce even through the Caucasus (in the process). When the adjust the strings of the bows, place in them the enemy killing arrows (and) pull the strings to their ears, the body of the enemy begins to shiver with fear. When their battle axes fall upon the armour of their opponents, their armour becomes their coffin.
"The body of every one of them is like a piece of rock and in physical grandeur every one of them is more than fifty men. It is said that Behram Gore killed wild asses and lions. But if he were to come face to face with them even he would bow before them (Singhs). Besides usual arms, they take their guns in hand (and) come into the field of action jumping (and) roaring like lions and raise slogans. They tear asunder the chests of many and shed blood of several (of their enemy) in the dust. You say that musket is a weapon of ancient times; it appears to be a creation of these dogs rather than Socrates. Who else than these (dogs) can be adept in the use of muskets. They do not bother (even if) there are innumerable muskets. To the right and the left, in front and towards the back, they go on operating hundreds of muskets angrily and regularly."
If you do not believe in what I say, you may enquire of the brave swordsmen who would tell you more than myself and would praise them for their fighting. This bears witness to (my statement) that they faced thirty thousand heroes in the battlefield. If their armies take to flight, it is a war tactics of theirs. They resort to this deception in order to make the angry army grow bold and run in their pursuit. When they find them separated from the main body and away from help and reinforcement, they at once turn back and fight more ferociously (literal translation - they set fire even to water).
"Did you not see that while fighting the Pathans, they took to flight which was deceptive. A world famous wrestler wielding high esteem and respect alight-ed from his horse and showed his great style as if he were Tuhmatan (a great warrior of Iran). O valiant fighter, do justice to their (act of) war. One of their armies invaded Multan and put the city to plunder and devastation and killed many of its inhabitants and carried away an immense booty. I am not sufficiently strong in mind to express what the dogs did there. But as God willed it, each of us has to submit to His Will."
Besides their fighting, listen to one more thing in which they excel all other warriors. They never kill a coward who is running away from the battlefield. They do not rob a woman of her wealth or ornaments whether she is rich or a servant ("Kaneez"). There is no adultery among these dogs, nor are they mischievous people. A woman, whether young or old, they call a "Burhi". The word Burhi, means in Indian language, an old lady. There is no thief amongst these dogs, nor is there amongst them any mean people. They do not keep company with adulaters and house thieves though all their acts may not be commendable."
If you are not acquainted with their religion, I tell you that the Sikhs are the disciples of the Guru - that glorious Guru lived at Chak (Amritsar). The ways and manners of these people were laid down by Nanak who showed these Sikhs a separate path. He was succeeded by Guru Gobind Singh from whom they received the title of Singh. They are not part of the Hindus, who have a separate religion of their own. "Now that you have familiarised yourself with the behaviour of the Sikhs, you may also know something about their country. They have divided the Punjab amongst themselves and have bestowed it upon every young and old."
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Huge Bump !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Be there guys :
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Another Amazing Site:
www.searchgurbani.com
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Sant and Mahapurush may say things to a particular individual but this doesn't really apply as a general rule.
I completey agree with that statement.
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what if someone is deaf, or blind... or both?
I am talking about surat here..Surat is dhyan. Surat does not rely on two eyes, 2 ears. Surat rely on Dhyan(birthi).
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Guys download these clips fast... i need to replace them with new video's in 3 days....do it fast !.
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>>>> http://www.ik13.com/online_library.htm <<<<<
check it out guys !
some amazing stuff on there...!
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excellent post Niranjana veer ji.
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Where sikhs are focusing on perserving sikh hertiage they should also include perserving of laridvar saroop of maharaj in their list and encourage generation to take santhia from teachers who can do santhia from laridvar saroops.
It's very sad to see, people are forgetting their history. There was a time everyone in the panth took santhia from laridvar saroop until sgpc took over and start implementing pad ched saroops.. now printing press hardly prints any saroop in laridvar saroop.
What can be done to bring this practise alive?
My post is no where boycotting pad ched saroops or this saroop is better than other..Guru Maharaj Saroop is Guru Maharaj Saroop... no question about it...but if we all trying to perserve sikh hertiage... this should be also included part of sikh hertiage that we are slowly losing touch.
By the way, since we got nirmaley, sevapanthis, nihangs on this site. I was just wondering , do you guys still do or teach santhia from laridvar saroops?
please post your thoughts.
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wow..amazing news
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Yeah where are the photos??
Also veer ji , can you update all your threads in this section... none of them have pictures.. you posted.. since we are upgrade our server..we lost them...to save time and hassle...if you want whatever picutres you posted soo far on sikhawareness please send them to me- sikhawareness2003@yahoo.ca .. i ll go ahead and re -post the pictures...you had some amazing collection.
![HS%20Nalwa[1].jpg](http://www.khalis.net/SikhAwareness/Pictures/Freed%20pictures/HS%20Nalwa%5B1%5D.jpg)
![JS%20Ramgarhia[1].jpg](http://www.khalis.net/SikhAwareness/Pictures/Freed%20pictures/JS%20Ramgarhia%5B1%5D.jpg)
Behsharam
in Formal Debates & Discussions
Posted
good post vijaydeep singh ji