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Also look at simliar discussion going on at sikhnet:

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....6C!OpenDocument

is this gurdwara or hindu mandir?

Amazing breath taking pictures

Baba Khem Singh Bedi one of the founders of the Singh Sabha movement, was born on 21 February 1832 at Kallar, a small town in Rawalpindi district, now in Pakistan. He was a direct descendant, in the thirteenth place, of Guru Nanak. He received the rites of amrit at the hands of the celebrated Baba Bir Singh of Naurangabad. His father Baba Attar Singh was killed in a family feud on 25 November 1839. Khem Singh and his elder brother Sampuran Singh inherited jagirs in the jalandhar Doab along with 41 villages in Dipalpur tahsil of of Gugera, later Montgomery (Sahival), district. On the annexation of the Punjab to the British dominions in 1849, 14 of these villages were resumed by the new government. During the uprising of 1857, Baba Khem Singh assisted the British in quelling a local revolt in Gugera district. He personally took part in a number of skirmishes, proving himself an excellent marksman with gun and rifle. While accompanying extra Assistant Commissioner Berkeley on a drive to reopen communications with Multan, Khem Singh distinguished himself in a cavalry charge on 21 Septernber 1857. The following day he barely escaped death in an ambush in which Berkeley was killed. The Government of lndia bestowed on him a khill'at or robe of honour of the value of 1,000 rupees and a double barrelled rifle. His jagirs were enhanced from time to time and, towards the end of his life, his possessions in land in Montgomery district alone amounted to 28,272 acres. He was appointed a magistrate in 1877 and an honorary munsif in 1878. He was made Companion of the Indian Empire (C.I.E.) in 1879, was nominated to the Viceroy's Legislative Council in 1893, and when the Indian council Act was extended to the Punjab in 1897, he was among the first non-official members nominated to the Punjab legislature. He was knighted in 1898 (K.C.I.E).

Baba Khem Singh was sensitive to the decline that had set in Sikh society after the occupation of the Punjab by the British and to the inroads being made by Christian proselytization. The gravity of the situation was brought home to the community dramatically when, at the beginning of 1873, four Sikh students of the Amritsar Mission School proclaimed their intention of renouncing their faith and embracing Christianity. The Sikhs convened a meeting at Amritsar on 30 . July 1873, led by Baba Khern Singh Bedi, Sardar Thakur Singh Sandhavalia and Kanvar Bikrama Singh of Kapurthala. As a result of the deliberations, a society called Sri Guru Singh Sabha was established at a largely attended gathering on the occasion of Dusshehra, 1 October 1873.

Singh Sabha began to spring tip at other places as well. A co-ordinating Khalsa Diwan was formed at Amritsar on 12 April 1883, with Baba Khem Singh as president and Bhai Gurmukh Singh of Lahore as chief secretary. Serious differences, however, soon arose between the two. Baba Khem Singh, being a direct descendant of Guru Nanak, was glorified by his followers which was resented by some Gurmukh Singh supporters. At the Baisakhi divan at Amritsar in 1884, he was given the customary cushioned seat in the presence of the Guru Granth Sahib. The group led by Bhai Gurmukh Singh protested. A schism arose. Baba Khem Singh's supporters were commonly burlesqued as Gudaila party. A separate Khalsa Diwan was set up at Lahore in April 1886. Baba Khem Singh, supported by the Patron of the Amritsar Diwan, Raja Bikrarn Singh of' Faridkot, secured the excommunication of Bhai Gurmukh Singh under the seal of the Golden Temple. This, however, did not help him retain his position among the Sikh masses; henceforth, his influence was restricted to the Pothohar region and to some areas in Western Punjab. There he preached among the Sahajdharis, and brought a large number into the Sikh fold. Besides the propagation of Sikh faith, Baba Khem Singh's important contribution lies in the spread of education among the Sikh masses, especially women. In 1855, the dispatch of the Court of Directors Of the East India Company, which initiated a new era in Indian education, was received at Lahore.

Eventhough Baba Khem Singh Bedi was pioneer of Singh Sabha movement and singlehandedly established Amritsar Singh Sabha, his ideals were in conflict with Sikhism. He allowed people to worship him which caused a great rift between Lahore Singh Sabha and Amritsar Singh Sabha. Ultimately it became the cause of his decline, but nonetheless his share in revitalizing the sikhism in undeniable. His missionary work and help for destitutes was noteworthy. He and his followers that were known as members of "Gudaila Party" were often publicly ridiculed by Lahore Singh Sabha for giving him a soft cushion to sit in front of Guru Granth Sahib. It is also said that he was encouraged by British missionaries who wanted to undermine the real spirit of Sikhism.

The following year the Punjab Government established the Department of' Public Instruction and planned to open 30 single-teacher primary schools in each district. Baba Khem Singh lent his full support to the scheme. He also opened schools on his own in the Rawalpindi division. Out of his immense wealth he gave away liberally for this purpose and at least fifty schools for boys and girls were opened in the Punjab through his help. On the occasion of the marriage of his daughter in 1893, he donated Rs 3,00,000 for religious and charitable purposes. Half of this amount was for setting up a college at Rawalpindi. As a beginning, a vocational School was opened there, in early 1894, with provision for training in dyeing, photography, carpentry, tailoring, etc. Provision was made for subsidized board and lodging for poor students.

Baba Khem Singh lived in princely style and enjoyed the reverence of hundreds of thousands of followers in Western Punjab and what later became the North-West Frontier Province. He was on a tour of the latter in the spring of 1905 when he suddenly fell ill. On 8 April 1905, he left Peshawar by rail in a state of' serious sickness and feebleness, and died at Montgomery on 10 April 1905.

Excerpts taken with courtesy from .

The Encyclopedia of Sikhism by Harbans Singh.

The family tree of the Bedis in which Guru Nanak was born is given here:-

Baba Ram Narayan

I

Baba Shivram/ Shiv Narayan (born Samvat 1417 Bikrami)

I

Baba Kalyan Chand (Kalu Ji) (born Samvat 1497 died Samvat 1579)

I

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji (born Samvat 1526, died 1596)

I

Baba Lakhmi Das (born Samvat 1553, died Samvat 1612) {Baba Sri Chand never married)

I

Baba Dharam Chand (born 1580 died 1674)

I

Baba Mehar Chand

I

Baba Dataar Chand

I

Baba Pahar Chand

I

Baba Harkaran Chand

I

Baba Nihal Chand

I

Baba Kaladhari Ji (died AD1738)

I

Baba Jit Singh {Ajit Singh} (died AD 1773)

I

Baba Sahib Singh (born Samvat 1813 died Samvat 1891 [ AD1834])

I

Baba Bishan Singh (died AD1839) And Baba Bikram Singh (died AD 1863)

I I

Baba Attar Singh Baba Sujan Singh (Born AD1845, died AD 1919)

I I

Baba Sir Khem Singh (died AD1904/5) Baba Ram Kishan Singh (born AD 1874)

I I

Baba Sir Gurbaksh Singh (born AD 1861) Tikka Sanwal Singh (born AD 1898)

I

Tikka Surendra Singh (born AD 1897)

The Gaddi of Baba Bishan Singh is at Una (Hoshiarpur) and the Gaddi of Baba Bishan Singh is at Kallar (dist. Rawalpindi).

The above information taken from Mahan Kosh (Bhai kahn Singh Nabha)

Please discuss about his life, contributions, his ideology, things that he did which you agree or don't agree with....!

I heard from bhai avtar singh ji raagi that he used to do 25 japji sahib a day alone..!

Dhan Dhan Guru Harkrishan Maharaj Ji

what was the need for sikhism?

are the Gurus tolerant of other religions and if they are then why create a new one?

Is the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji the word of God?

Did God reveal the truth to Guru Nanak ji?

Why would God send down a new revelation thousands of years later?

This is going to be long. I ll try my best... i don't think worm like me can qualify to even start why Sikh Dharma was needed....where could one start and end? As japji sahib- millions of tongues, millions of pen could not write greatness of god.

Anyway here is the lame attempt.

1. There was a need of Sikh Dharma because-

a.) Sikh Guru's came and started Sikh Dharma to spread coolness/calmness/peace in the hearts of people which were burned by 5 vices- lust, ego , greed, attachment, anger by preaching virtues- sat(truth), santokh(contentment), gyan(knowledge), pateince, pyaar(love), bairaag(longin), sehaj, bibek-buddhi (able to discriminate ignorance from right and wrong).

Back in those times, people needed easy way to do bhagti of Vahiguroo. Guru Maharaj Ji as Guru Avtar of Kaliyuga sent by Vahiguroo preached Naam Simran by replacing parnayam and introduced concept of seva by replacing tapayasa. Where Niskham seva (seva done with no gifts in return) helps to get rid of ego and Naam simran helps with remembrance of God. Guru Maharaj preached - Naam Simran and seva are two wings to God.. one does not need convert..they can do this in their own religion.

c.) muslims and hindu followers back in those times were killing each other, living in hoods of fanaticism, Sikh Guru's preached love and humanity to those who were killing innocent people in name of religion. Sikh Guru's preached to rise above from mere rituals like - prayer in sake of praying, bowing down in sake of rituals and accept prayer in sake of love for god, bowing down in sake of killing one's ego not just mere posture.

2. Guru's were much tolerant of other religions....biggest example exist in our- Siri Guru Granth Sahib - we have compositions of great hindu and muslim saints- their expereinces, their feeling, their inspirations and we bow down to their teaching each and every day when we bow down to Siri Guru Granth Sahib. Guru Maharaj never discriminated anyone in fact - he apperciated true bhagat of Vahiguroo regardless of caste, creed, color, religion. Guru Maharaj is also introduced concept of langar where everyone regardless of status, caste, creed, religion sit on one level and have free food in free kitchen. Creating Sikh Dharma has nothing to do with intolerance of other faiths, in fact it's other way around. Sikh Dharma was created for reminder to all humanity is-

Bai Parapat Manuk Dhuriya Gobind Millan Ki Eh Teri Varaie || (O Human being, you are lucky that you got this human body, this is your last chance to meet God) .

It's a reminder to all humanity whoever you are - if you are muslim be good muslim who remembers allah each and every second, if you are hindu be good hindu who remembers raam/ishvar each and every second.

3. Even though Guru Nanak himself was God in human form. God did reveal the truth to Guru Nanak Dev Ji when he disappear in river- Revealtion was -

Ikongkar (God is one), Satnaam( God's name is truth), Karta purkh (creator), Nirbahu (fearless), Nirvair (not enemy of anyone) Akaal Morat (Timeless, beyond death(kaal) - akaal) Ajooni (does not come in birth/death), Saihbhangg (infinity, all prevading) Gurparsad (can be attained by Guru of Guru).

4. God send down alll avtars from time to time to spread his name, truth and love. God send down a new revelation because it was much needed at that time. In kalyug(age of iron) there was not much guidance, whatever guidance did exist was fairly complex. God send Guru nanak dev ji as avtar of Kalyug to create a spritiual/martial simplified philosophy which normal people can take benefit from while living in family - Gristh Jeevan. One does not need to be celibate, wander around in jungles or mountains in order to attain him.

5- Siri Guru Granth Sahib is word of Vahiguroo . It's divine revealtion, it's spoken through Guru's, Bhagats spritual expereinces, their feeling, their bairaag(emotions/longing).

Here is a very interesting article regarding this question.

Guru Granth Sahib is Divine Category !

The Guru Granth is Divine Category

ORGINALLY CREATED: http://www.snsm.org.my/library/articles/divine.htm

Below are three sets of emails sent by Janet Lant to Chris Hammer in reply to his questions.

Part 1

Subject:

Proof for Chris Hammer, The Guru Granth is Divine.

Category:

General Feedback

Author:

Janet Lant

Date:

Saturday, 6/20/98 5:35 PM MDT

Listen Chris Hammers, I never got around to telling you some of the things about Sikh religion that convince me of its authenticity. One major evidence is the "Holy Book" of Sikh religion known as the "Granth Sahib". The Granth Sahib was complied over a period of 240years by the hands of the beings that founded Sikh religion. All copies are matched to the original handwritten one. It is scientifically impossible for any known being to write a book with all the qualities found in the Granth Sahib. Below are some of those amazing qualities:

It is written using very deeply profound words obtained from over 16 languages. (I would say that it's words are more profound then that of any other Book on the planet, but that would not get anywhere, I would be simply dismissed as being biased)

The words from over 16 incompatible languages are incorporated in a way that they make perfect sense.

The alphabet the Granth Sahib uses was invented by the Supreme Beings that wrote it. The Alphabet is called Gurmuki, it is impossible to make a spelling mistake using this alphabet because it has logical grammar rules. Every word or sound can only be written one way. Not like English where the k in knife is silent. This is the easiest alphabet to master. I bet the world would be using computers a long time ago to write things using speech recognition programs if Gurmuki was the business language of the world.

Every sentence is written in poetry of the highest order. (William Shakespeare would have been envious.)

At the same time every sentence rhymes.

At the same time everything is in music verse form, so that all sorts of musical instruments can be played while it is sung.

Sikh religion believes praying should be a very pleasurable, stress reliving, thought provoking event. Most other religions believe praying should be a act of submission(Catholics make you kneel allot!), unquestioningly following rituals, and fear of a jealous Angry God (the Ten Commandments of Judao-Christianity state something about God being a Jealous God and one prone to Anger.) Now Chris, tell me does it make sense following a God who is so immature he gets Jealous, how insecure could that kind of a God be! And how wimpy and powerless must this God be if he gets Angry.

The God of Sikh religion never gets Jealous because he made all those awesome things that make insecure persons jealous. Sikh religion also says God is without anger. Their is a very beautiful song about this in the Granth Sahib!

Plus before the Equal Rights movement, infact 540 years before , Guru Nanak said many nice Praises about women, instead of condemning them like all the other great religions do.

Quotes about Women in Sri Guru Granth Sahib In praise of women.

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. We grow up stronger and wiser having drunk milk from the breast of woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, Var Asa, pg. 473)

Marriage is an equal partnership of love and sharing between husband and wife.

"They are not husband and wife, who merely sit together. Rather they alone are called husband and wife, who have one spirit in two bodies." (Guru Amar Das, Pauri, pg. 788)

Women have an equal right to participate in the congregation.

"Come my sisters and dear comrades! Clasp me in thine embrace. Meeting together, let us tell the tales of our Omnipotent Spouse (God). In the True Lord are all merits, in us all demerits." (Guru Nanak Dev, Sri Rag, pg. 17)

God is the husband and we are all his brides.

"The spouse is but One and all others are His brides. The false bride assumes many religious garbs. When the Lord stops her going into another's home, then is she summoned into her Lord's mansion without any let and hindrance. She is adorned with the Name and is dear to her True Lord. She alone is the true bride and the Lord lends her His support." (Guru Nanak Dev, Ramkali, pg. 933) (note: Lord is one of the names of God)

God is our Mother as well as our Father.

"Thou O Lord, art my Father and Thou my Mother. Thou art the Giver of peace to my soul and very life." (Guru Arjan Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1144)

The rape and brutalities committed against women by the Mughal invader Babar condemned.

"Modesty and righteousness both have vanished and falsehood moves about as the leader, O Lalo. The function of the Qazis and the Brahmins is over and the Satan now reads the marriage rites (rape). The Muslim women read the Quran and in suffering call upon God, O Lalo. The Hindu women of high cast and others of low caste, may also be put in the same account, O Lalo." (Guru Nanak Dev, Tilang, pg. 722)

The practice of women burning themselves on their husband's funeral pyre (sati) condemned.

"They cannot be called satis, who burn themselves with their dead husbands. They can only be called satis, if they bear the shock of separation. They may also be known as satis, who live with character and contentment and always show veneration to their husbands by remembering them." (Guru Amar Das, Var Suhi, pg. 787)

The ritual of dowry so prevalent in many societies condemned.

"Any other dowry, which the perverse place for show, that is false pride and worthless gilding. O' my Father! give me the Name of Lord God as a gift and dowry." (Guru Ram Das, Sri Rag, pg. 79)

First Supreme Being Guru Nanak laid the foundation of Sikhism which believes in a casteless, egalitarian society which guarantees equal rights to Women. Each of the Supreme Being Gurus under authority of God gave women equal status. They gained social and religious freedom at a time when the existing religions and society considered women to be property. The false notion that they were inherently evil and unclean was removed. A woman was regarded as temptation-incarnate. The Gurus exposed the folly of such notions. [Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Jainism, they all directly say Women are Unclean and Inferior.].

Sixth Supreme Being Guru Hargobind called Woman "the conscience of man". In religious gatherings, men and women sang and preached without any distinction. The wearing of purdah (women wearing veils to hide the face) was rejected as demeaning to women. Guru Hargobind refused to have dinner with any Queen who wore a veil.

Ik OnKar: means "One Creator" The circle is a chuchrum representing the Universe, the double edged sword represents the positive and negative side of the Force, the 2 swords on the outside of the sphere represent the hands of the One Creator protecting and beholding all that exists and beyond.

Part 2

Dear Inquisitive, challenging brother "Chris Hammer", I will answer all your questions in better detail when time permits. For now I will torpedo your points. PLEASE READ THE KHALSA CONSENSUS ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI. Then you will see that Sikhs have more Divine proofs then any other Religion. I was born and still am a Christian, but I will soon Convert to Sikhism. The main reason being the Bible is anti-Women, it talks about the Woman’s Curse, the Old testament says God wants you to steal a baby boys foreskin, Science now says that mutilative operation is very harmful to the Defenseless infant boy, Mothering Magazine did a Science article on it. But Sikhs knew one should never destroy any Gift God gives, so cutting of a skin from the genitals is quite Evil, what happened to Human Rights, The Sikh religion Honors infants and all beings! Everyday a teaching of the Bible is found to be harmful.

First: You claim the proof that a revelation is truly from God, is Prophesy! As you know any occult palm reader etc... can claim they predicted an Earth Quake a year before it happened. All a Psychic has to say is next year the Earth will shake. Chances under rules of Science are that there is a good chance that some kind of explosion or Earth Shaking activity will happen in a year, so Prophesy is just clever manipulation of history.

You say "The Bible prophesied hundreds of years in advance giving detailed accounts of the major empires of the world and all major cities of the ancient world as well as the names of two emperors 200 years before they were born".

I have read the Bible, I find that these so called revelation do not prove anything anyone can make them, it's easy to turn anything written in the past into a accurate prediction, by stretching interpretations to suite an end result.

Not to really answer your challenge. SIKHS do not depend on Prophesy, because God like a Movie producer can make any changes whenever He/She wants to. What Proves the Sikh religion came directly from God is it is the only Religion in the world that has perfect Science. Your Bible was the reason Galileo was almost Executed, because the Bible was saying the Earth is Flat & the Sun revolves around the Earth. This Male Egotistical writing is now proven face by Science. The First Supreme Being GURU NANAK, "The Light that Dispels the Darkness", wrote many Divine Poems describing Solar Systems. If you know science you know Solar System means a planetary system in which all the planets revolve around a central Star.

Second proof The first Supreme Being or Light that Dispels the Darkness-Guru Nanak with his own hands at the order of God wrote Hymns that say the Earth and many planets are round. I will now Quote a Divine Poetic Quote translated from Gurmuki, that teaches that not only is Earth Round but there are uncountable Earths(planets), Uncountable Solar Systems around which they orbit, Uncountable Galaxies. Chris Hammer, you know that it was only a few decades ago when "Hubble" an astronomer discovered that we live in a Galaxy, then much later Hubble discovered that there are many Galaxies outside our own. Well Mr. Hammer, the Sikh Holy Scripture which is the only Holy Book written by the Founder(s) of its faith. That is like saying Jesus wrote the Bible, instead of Chauvinistic men 100's of years after Jesus died.

The Guru Granth Sahib, over 540 years ago stated that their were Countless Galaxies, Galileo was not born until 100 years later. Guru Nanak did not have a Telescope or vast scientific resources like Galileo did. If that is not enough & you demand Sikhs to have prophesy to be valid, then I will give you something no human not even Jesus knew, the Gurus said there are Universes upon Universes, Spheres upon Spheres. What this means is that when you reach the end of our 15 billion light years size Universe, go many times that distance into empty space, you will encounter the neighboring Universe, keep traveling and the scenario will repeat. Now the Spheres upon Spheres means that about 400 trillion Universes each the size of our one Universe make a Spherical structures called a Sphere, & that there are countless numbers of these huge Spheres each containing Trillions of Universes.

Now Mr. Hammer, your God is a God of 1 Flat Earth, 1 spiritual heaven, & 1 Spiritual Hell! The Sikh God as I mentioned above is bigger, his Earth is a Sphere, he is master of many Planets, Universes, Galaxies etc.. plus his is master of countless Physical Heavens in addition to 1 Spiritual Heaven + countless Physical Hells in addition to 1 Spiritual Hell! So your God Mr. Hammer is quite small in power etc... How come your Bible did not mention this.

Now to give you a prophesy, in the Future your Scientists will discover that the Sikh religion was correct when Guru Nanak stated there are Universes upon Universes, then much further into the future your Scientists will eventual realize that Trillions of these Universes form a Sphere. Below is the Quote! Enjoy!

"There are worlds upon worlds, solar systems upon solar systems, galaxies upon galaxies, universes upon universes, spheres upon spheres, They function according to Command of God. God gets joy by thinking of and beholding His Creation;"

"Beyond this Earth, there are many more and more earths. What power bears their load from underneath? (Not the supposed bull, but God's Force)."

"God's One Word created the world's expansion. And lacs of rivers began to flow."

"There are nether worlds and more nether worlds below them and there are lakhs of skies over them. Limitless the worlds beneath, limitless the worlds above. One may grow weary of searching out His limits. One can never reach the end of His Vastness."

"The continents, worlds and solar system, established by God, sing His glories. God's enlightened beings steeped in the Name, who are pleasing to God, sing His praises"

"God has His seat and His storehouses in all the worlds. Whatever is stored, was put only once for all, enough forever!"

"How many Indras, moons, suns, and how many Star Systems[surya Mandals], and stars, How many [countless], Siddh, Buddhas [like Gautama Buddha], Nath [Gurus], and how many forms and incarnations of Devi [Durga],How many Angles, Demons, Speakars of Truth[Muni], and countless Oceans having precious stones,"

Part 3

My Dear brother Chris Hammers,

You say "I am very sorry to hear of your bad experience with Christianity, but don't make the mistake of throwing out the baby with the bath water."

Now listen, why do you consider my future plans of upgrading(converting) to Sikhism, as throwing out the baby with the bath water. I am not interested in converting because I had bad experience with Christianity, how could I have a bad experience when all I knew as an infant was Christianity.

My parents like you tried to discourage me from embracing Sikh ways, they said Sikhism is primitive religion. I then proved to them exactly how misguided & ignorant they were. I did this by pointing out that Christianity began 2000 years ago, it was a primitive mans attempt to understand God. So it is Christianity that is primitive, Sikhism I taught my parents is a Religion of Divine Science.

You gave some quotes from the Bible, about Stars, but the Man who wrote that had no idea that a star is a HOT SUN like our sun, not a cool pretty shiny grain of sand in the sky. Most of my relatives understand the Bible considers stars to be Gods heavenly wallpaper nothing more. Only in the Sikh religion is it clearly stated that Stars are Suns because the Granth states Suraa Mundala, meaning solar systems.

I never said a Guru is "The Supreme Being". What I said is "The First Supreme Being GURU NANAK, "The Light that Dispels the Darkness", wrote many Divine Poems describing Solar Systems."

The Sikh religion states there is only one "SAT GURU" meaning True God. When I refer to Guru Nanak as a First Supreme Being, it means Pala Mehel or First Mehel, it does not mean GOD. God is The One Supreme Being, the Gurus were one step below as Supreme Beings under the One True Supreme Being. The word GURU comes from 2 words GU & RU, GU means Light, RU means Darkness. Combined they mean "The Light That Dispels The Darkness" or simply GURU. Clearly each of the 10 Gurus were and are Supreme Beings working for God the One True Supreme Being. Guru Nanak walked the Land like Jesus, only difference is Nanak walked much further distances, infact Nanak at a minimum based on other nations historical records walked enough to circle the Earth 3 times over. But in the future I feel the distance record will increase even further, for example the nation of ITALY has villagers reporting their ancestors made company with Nanak, and the Provincial Governments of CHINA are reporting, that they had visits by Nanak, they have now proved that Nanking province And Nanaking City were named to Honor First Supreme Being Nanak.

If you read Genesis or the TORAH it has a section called "The Woman's Curse", which is a Man made Bible teaching that God punished Women because a mythical Eve gave Adam a forbidden fruit. I will give you an exact quote when time permits. This Bible chapter states that a women had monthly menstrual cycles because God has Cursed her. In Genesis it also says a Woman's Husband shall strike her in the Head. Read the Bible & the Old Testament or Torah and you will see how much hatred of woman there is in there. It talks of God wanting Woman to be submissive to Man.

I am a MD and no Bible Thumping Man tells me what to do. I told my Fiancee that I am almost sure I am converting to Sikhism & if he is unwilling to do the same, then he can hit the road. He said whatever I want he wants too. I have been teaching him many of the Khalsa Books on Sikhism, and he is impressed at the GURU's teachings.

Chris Hammers, I studied all the religions, and found all flawed, only Sikhism was able to withstand my fierce assault. I tried & Tried to find fault in Sikhism, I found NONE! When I first saw a Sikh, I thought he was a Muslim, I latter I learned that most Muslims never wear a Turban, a Sikh wears a Turban, because it Give a Free Cranial Adjustment & tells Him & everyone else that he is beneath no one and only God is above Him!

The Pro Woman aspect of Sikhism is only one of the many Divine Reasons I am planing on Upgrading to Sikhism. I find Sikhism is a very advanced Dharma for the Modern world. My current religion just has no place to meet my Modern Demands, its not like after I got my MD, some guy with a Old Testament is going to put me in the Kitchen, because some imaginary MALE GOD told him a Woman belongs in the Kitchen, HA HA! Of course I do allot of work in the Kitchen, but only when I want to cook something I Love & avoid the unhealthy restaurant food.

The Tenth Supreme Being Guru Govind Singh, when traveling by the woods, got of his horse upon the sight of a Tombacoo Plant (Tobacco Plant). He then drew his Kirpan (holy Sword) and chopped it up, then with his feet he smeared it into the ground. Onlookers belonging to many different religions, asked the Tenths Supreme Being, why have you destroyed that plant? The Tenth Supreme Being replied " Alcohol will destroy one Generation, But Tombacoo will destroy many generations.

Chris Hammers, as you know it was only about 4 years ago that Scientist discovered that Second hand Tobacco Smoke kills, thus destroying(damaging or killing) the fetus and destroying the lives of children & great Grand Children & friends. So because the 10th Supreme Being was in constant communications with the One True Supreme Being(Ik Onkar, Sat Nam) he had access to absolute Science. Did the Men who wrote the Holy Bible not know about Tobacco, were the not in communication with the One True Creator? Sikhism is the only Faith that forbids Tobacco in its Scriptures. Read the English Translations by SANT SINGH KHALSA, also a MD! I only hope that God will let me earn the only True Degree there is the "Degree of Divine Sikhia".

Chris it was my Medical Colleagues who during the 50's started routine Circumcision of Defenseless Babies. This was done to make extra income for medical professionals, Circumcision increases the transmission and acquiring of STD's. Plus many other problems, In my next posting I will give over 70 Scientific references proving my point. I will do this not to prove you wrong, but to prove another Sikh wrong. Chris even Jesus tried to ban Circumcision, because the practice is Satanic, no Loving God would ask anyone to chop of a very valuable pleasure producing part.

Read the next post, then you will see the proof!

Until the past 12 years I when to Church every Sunday, now hopefully I will get to go to Gurdwara any day of the week as convenient. Instead of hearing a fiery sermon, I will get to enjoy Divine Music & Hymns!

And Chris Hammer, Only Ik Onkar or One Creators name is Precious, not a Nice Guy named Jesus. I get the impression you are a Religious Fanatic, something that the Sikh Dharm shuns. Because Fanaticism puts a wall between ones spiritual connection to One True Creator.

Sikhs don't waste time spreading Sikhism like other religions do because, one does not give away Diamonds. I am lucky I came across this True Diamond, I only hope I have the IQ it takes to follow the Super Advanced Spiritual Teachings of the "Lights that Dispel the Darkness or Gurus".

Part 4

See, I am not the only one that knows a Turban gives a Cranial Adjustment. It is a law of Physics, not Indian culture. Sikhism is from the future, Indian is from the past, you can take the wayward path if you like. Your comments indicate you already made many a wrong choice. And, Jass Singh, the Gurus were & are Supreme Beings, and there is nothing you can do to hurt them or lower There power. Some other Sikh, wrote that Punjabi Sikhs are cutting their Hair and trying to blend in with western culture. Well that's their & their parents poor understanding of Divinity of Sikhism. So by dumping diamonds they don't hurt me one bit, its their loss. I as a very Modern American, know I am becoming even more Modern by adopting the Guru's (the Lights that Dispel the Darkness)teachings and way of life. If Punjabi Sikhs misbehave they loose big time. I have looked at all Religions and Sikhism is the only Dharm that can exist in its current form on any Planet in Any Universe, maybe the Punjabi Sikhs don't deserve this best of all Universal Knowledge anymore.

I wore a Kara to the last continuing medical education seminar, and some of my colleagues asked me about it. So I told them what it was and about Sikh Dharm, they showed great interest in learning more. Two of the ladies from the group asked where they could get a translation of the Sikh Holy book. Page 14 of the Khalsa Consensus Translation must be what peaked there interest! If God gave me more time, I know it would be so easy to get far more individuals interested in Sikhism! I never ever saw a Sikh of India sharing knowledge of Sikhism with a Non-Sikh. Probably a good thing in disguise, because, I have been told so much misinformation by Native Sikhs. For example some tell me Meat is good, then they justify such butchery by saying the Gurus ate it. When I ask them for proof they come up with sloppy translations. I then waste time dissecting them and find the Gurus are speaking against killing animals in those passages. For a person like myself, it is so obvious the Gurus could never condone eating meat. As meat is unhealthy & a Shameful destruction of LifeForce. I quit eating meat 12 years ago, way before I even knew Sikhs existed. Thank God the Gurus wrote the Granth and not some body much latter on.

My journey shall be taking me up and down India and Pakistan mainly. on my way back I shall spend 2 months or so with the 3HO people in the USA. (might go to some middle east countries, depends if I don't get kidnapped)

Take loads of pictures

Have a safe trip purkha

BE THERE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>> http://www.terajor.com/tdotprotest/ <<<<

i ll tell you via pm.

Atamik Vichar 2nd Part

souce: The Radiance of a Complete Journey to Akaal Purkh by Sant baba Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowaley.

Physical Actions:

1. Cleaning teeth with paste, powder or wooden brush

2. Bath

3. Posture

4. Travel in good causes (i.e.- congregation/sangat)

5. Obedient- serving the saints.

Vaachak Word:

1. Tongue or mouth actions: meditation of a mantra - a verse from Gurbani (Sikh scripture)

2. Remembrance of Naam.

3. Speaking truth.

4. Divine Music- singing of God's praise

5. Sweet speech

Psychological Actions:

1. Mercy - to comfort all living being through bodily, mental and monetary and speaking means- celibacy- to avoid sex and keeping away from women at length. Eight means to keep away from women's company i.e.-

1. Not to listen about women.

2. Not to think of women

3. Not to think about women

4. Not to remember her.

5. Not to talk to women in private.

6. Not to imagine about meeting women

7. Not to try to meet women

8. Not to meet them

By practicing these eight means one keep aways from sex and adapts celibacy -. Brahmcharya Var.

Prohibition of eight kinds of sexual activity, Brahmcharag- Celibacy is on opposite side. These are listening, simran (remembrance), Kirtan(music), thinking, Imagination and talk in private Neither to try to meet a woman nor meet her.

Cleansing of Mind

1. Mercy i.e. - to comfort all living beings through body, mind, wealth and word.

2. To be truthful (Sat bachan)

3. Celibacy: To avoid women's company.

4 Forbearance: To keep equanimity in comfort as well as pain.

5. To be contended.

6. Friendliness with all- sweet tongue

7. Good heartedness- To Consider all equal in spirit and give happiness to everyone.

8. Detachment from ignorant, discriminatory, debauch, worldly liars and foote.

9. Detachment from infatuation.

10. Meditation - Focusing of mind in God's nature.

11. Seclusion: Keeping aloof from others and meditating alone- keeping mind free of worries about past and future. Concentration in God's form.

12. Contemplating of philosophical texts that give intellect for distinguishing truth from lies, right form false in seclusion.

13. Congregation: To keep company with the truthful people with love, devotion and humility, to listen to their utterances, mediating upon them. Practicing such words as to unify own intellect with the word. To mingle intellect with the essence of holy men's words.

14. True concepts to keep concept and ideas true, pure, straight, forward, humble and possessed of righteous virtues. Renouncing material and evil temptations- adopting truthful qualities in order to follow and transform into the path of righteousness.

Nature and Temperament in true Guru's congregations:

1. Service: Surrender to Guru's word (bani) through body, mind and money.

2. Theistic tendency: To accept and obey the word as truth.

3.Humility- To Enjoy company of true Guru by shunning ego of family line, beauty, education, high class, youth physique and reputation.

4. Silence- In Guru's company to talk meaningful, deep silence and listen to Guru's sermon.

5. Not to be critical of Guru's actions.

6. Remembrance- remembering Guru's word.

7. To be attentive and alert in Guru's company and service.

8. To always speak sweet and be patient.

9. To hope for salvation. When I ll have my pains removed and obtain supreme bliss.

Temperament while studying divine texts.

1. Devotion- To keep faith in text's saying.

2. Concentration of Mind.

3. To in gain sayings in intelligence

4. Contemplation of texts in seclusion.

5. Affixing of mind in Shastras with love.

6. To be attentive and pay full attention to shastar's word. To avoid carelessness and sleep and keep words deep in deep.

Spiritual Meditation:

1. Keeping body in cross-legged posture.

2. Illuminated intellect- To distinguish between permanent and transistorizes to consider soul permanent and body impermanent.

3. Detachment- To renounce impermanent body.

4. Sam- Keeping away all non- spiritual objects.

5. Dam- To keep sense organs above carnal desires.

6. Adoptions: To Contemplate about spirit time and again.

7. Anhangrah: Thinking about self in terms of Godhead: I exist, I am, I am truth, Conscious, indivisible, flawless, indescribable Brahm, Surpreme reality.

8. Samadhi- Meditation: While so practicing mind gets merged with God, who is pure bliss, has no thought whatsoever, resides in unbreakable soul. This is true samadhi, and is the highest fruit of spiritual meditation.

Household life:

1. To live egoless and not to get entangled with material objects and feeling, no pride.

2. Non/Dis Possessiveness: Not to consider anything own.

3. To be detached from the charms of family life, objects and relatives.

4. Patience: Keeping poise during hard times of trouble, poverty, dishonor, and separation of dear ones.

5. Generosity- To help and serve with money the needy hermits, crippled, students, poor, learned ones, saints and religious persons. To share wealth with others. To be of big hearted, to donate money with our own hands and earn good name thereby.

6. Arayav- To keep conduct and deeds pure and taintless.

7. To be friendly with all- behaving towards relatives with tenderness.

8. To inspire children for gaining righteous knowledge. Telling the moral instructions.

9. Try to establish righteousness: True word, true oath, true determination and true actions.

10. Non violence: To comfort all living beings with sweet words, right mind and right action.

11. To keep cool- avoiding anger.

12. Detachment: To be free from worldly bonds of norms and attachment. Not sitting among the relatives. Spent time in seclusion and going to home. To keep family life smooth and happy.

13. Consideration: doing household chores with deep thinking.

14. Contentment: To keep sense organs under control- eating, touching, smelling, hearing and seeing including organs. To do with little rather than more. Minimizing desires as much as possible and feeling happy. Simple living, simple dress, subtle materials and rest as per circumstances.

Model Behavior:

1. To live righteously: To speak truth, to weight right, wrong, not to accept bribe.

2. Straight Forward: Not to do fraud, betrayal, back biting.

3. To do well to others by body, mind and wealth.

4. Seriousness: To be thoughtful and keeping equipoise.

5. Vision: To think over anything deeply and wisely.

6. Be Brief: To be short and meaningful in behavior.

7. To be punctual and dutiful in whatever to be done and go detached afterwards.

8. To be just: Not to get involved in something with selfishness, practicing as mentioned above, one can attain to God in life span with patience. Stability and helping others are suggested in achieving spiritual goal. As long as one is alive, he ought to behave in above mentioned manner and should enjoy the ecstatic happiness of liberation.

Nature of Mind-

Shastras have various descriptions of mind. It is composed of fine tendencies.

1. Paran Biparjai "Illusory knowledge"

2. Vikalp (imagination)

3. Sleep

4. Memory

5. Consciousness- Yoga is bringing them under control.

Control of Mind's Tendencies: A wise man gives five phase of mind.

1. Kashipat. 2. Bakshapat 3. Without intellect 4. Concentration. 5. Control.

Some say mind is imaginative in nature. Everybody is right relatively. If thought and imagination are the essential features the mind itself is the same. Now the question is how to control thought process and by what easy way. For this one has to know fully as to who is responsible for repeated thoughts streams and disinclination for efforts to control them. Moreover, defects while applying remedies needs be understood also.

Nine disturbances:

Illness, aggressiveness doubt, sexual desire, futile pursuit, sluggishness, absence of detachment, illusion, non availability of consciousness, fleecing nature of mind are accompanied by pain, illness, movement of body, organs, breathing six of them are important. Accumulates Karmas of previous birth and their effects give rise to stream of thoughts. Similarly bad habits, temptations for vices causes disinterestedness for employing remedial techniques. Likewise hordes of sins in previous births produce doubt and faithlessness. In order to kill temptations, one need to contemplate about the temporariness of material things and the resultant pain and misery by indulging in them. This way, disaffection takes over. Renunciation of material comforts paves the way of destructive of previous births, karmas and total annihilation of accumulation karmas and sins is possible with remembrance of God's name and serving the man kind. Enjoying congregations with holy men and reading of shastra, help in total demolition of bad habits, doubt, illusion and faithlessness. No doubt, mind is very mercurial and hard to come under control but practice as disenchantment serves the purpose.

Mind is controlled by practice and disenchantment. Kapil Dev also says the same thing:

"Free your mind of waves of thoughts by whatever means possible, either by adoration, by Yoga or by knowledge"

It is clear from as stated above that only practice and disenchantment are the means of mind's control. Therefore they ought to be understood well. All objects containing tri-attributes and their desires and temptations and must be shunned away. This disenchantment of Tatar Sathio Yatne Abhiasa Practice involves actions to be done to stay in God. Practice done for long time has strong foundation Mercurial mind commonly respect-fully controlled by stopping it going to tempting objects of the world and affixing it into God. Remembrance of God's Naam and Nature brings about stability in mind and destroys all obstacles (Ishwar Parami Dhanatva) Mind's tendencies are restricted by God's devotion.

It ought to be repeated and God's form be contemplated by which all difficulties go away and soul is realized. God is traceable and available for those who meditate on his Naam with single mindedness. Therefore God's Naam be remembered. His form be contemplated continuously and without desires.

Elevations to spiritual stages:

1. Try to indulge mind, where it may be in God, This is the easy and light way to control mental tendencies. God is omnipresent by comprehending his loving nature by love and devotion they are also disciplined.

2. By concentrating on Guru's face/image, feeling this love and mercy like bumble bee of flowers, mind is disciplined.

3. In dawn by watching sun with closed eyes, one feels huge disc of light thinking about God's light multi times brighter and every where in space, one can feel the presence of Almighty. This way by forgetting material and comprehending spiritual being instead, mind gets stable.

4. By knowing spiritual people's lives, stories and achievements, one can attain to the similar sensation of detachment. This is easy path to get mind's concentration.

5. There is one vein- Sukhmana. God of supreme bliss resides there, God who is pure knowledge and Bliss. That vein (artery) is connected to all veins and arteries of body. All of them stop functioning with Sukhmana's closure. It beats at 75, 80 per minute rate. By repeating oankar with every beat, faculties are disciplined leading to God realization. It is harder though but it is achievable if one practices in seclusion, noiseless place. Mind free of disturbance and worry is in stable condition which is obtained by focusing in Sukhmana.

6. Tune your attention into listening to unstuck melodies within by sitting in secluded, undistributed place and inserting fingers in both ears. First there will be Jargon of voices, noises will take on clock's ticking at 75, 80 beats per minute. Mind set accordingly brings tendencies under feeling supreme bliss. It seems hard in beginning but it is easier to practice in midnight or early in the morning.

7. Like a bumble bee mental tendencies get fixed in God.

8. Faith and dedication in Sargun saroop also brings tendencies under control Abhi mat Dhianva..

9. Meditating upon Oankar with inhaling or exhaling control's mind.

10. In a sacred, secluded place in comfortable posture, closing eyes and concentrating mind in Almighty. The supreme bliss by forgetting body and it's existence. By practicing detachment tree of the world is fallen. One must beware of physical faculties that cause sleep and sluggishness. Only meditating upon God the bliss could stop this weakness.

11. With illuminated intellect by understanding Sam, Dam and Dand or bhed. God can be realized.

12. Treating mind like friend is saam, tempting with money- Dam, by creating fear- Dand and by creating division among freinds and relatives to achieve self goal is Bhed. Worldly pleasure can be divided and thus weakened help realize highest goals.

can i crash the dance floor at your freind's wedding?? :lol:

In this thread, I have learnt a lot from gurmukh pyares- Gurmat could have loads of simliarties to above school of thoughts but it's not exact carbon copy of school of thoughts listed above.

That makes me wonder- What is Gurmat Sidhant exactly?? both from (adhyatamik) spiritual and temporal point of view (Miri- Piri) ?

This is very important question. I think lately everyone using gurmat word too loosely on very small pitty things...makes me wonder really - why people making out Guru Di Mat soo narrow and tunnel visioned..

passing on tsingh, bahadur singh, niranjana, drawof , amrit veer ji and other gurmukh pyares.

Anyone here????

Oh Dhol Bibi Jagir Kaur Dah Oh Ho!

hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahha..MEGA LOL...

LD JAGIR

AMRITSAR, JULY 19 (PTI)

The Sikh Gurudwara Judicial Commission (SGJC) today expelled Bibi Jagir Kaur from the Shiromani Gurudwara Prabhandhak Committee (SGPC) for a period of five years for causing a loss of nearly Rs 2.5 crore to the highest Sikh religious body.

Kaur was expelled from both the presidentship and the membership of the committee and also debarred her from becoming a member of any Gurudwara board for at least a period of five years, SGJC Chairman Kashmir Singh Patti announced here.

The SGJC has held Kaur accountable for causing a loss of nearly Rs 2.5 crore to the SGPC while extending undue favours to the kin of Akali activists by getting them admission in the five-year MBBS course in 'Shri Guru Ram Dass Institute of Medical Sciences and Research' run by the committee against NRI quota, he said.

However, the SGPC president termed the verdict as "illegal" and said she will challenge it in the Punjab and Haryana High Court after she gets a true copy of the judgement tomorrow.

Ruling out her resignation immediately, Kaur told reporters here that she had been elected by the members of the Committee and accused Patti of "targeting" her as she had challenged his appointment as SGJC chairman three years ago.

he was superb , the clarity of the table was un-believeable.

The concert was well balanaced , in the sense it wasn;t just classical tabla playing , some modern fusion stuff was played as well

did someone got the recordings???

great post hari

Yes..shardha should come from within ... if we give you set of rules and you following it as a ritual then it's not worth it...best thing is to ask your consceince - how would u treat king of kings regardless of translations...just because it's translated in english. does it reduce it's value??.. !!!!!!!!!

Bruce Lung, you will get banned from this forum if you one more time insult your fellow members.

Indi do you got that shabad on mp3 format?

what a sad news...really sickening news.. !

The last part of the kirtan program in UK of Baba Ranjit Singh on 12th July is online...check out www.gurdarbar.com- - in the movies section.

great post tsingh veer ji.

My conclusion is, it is dangerous to talk in broad terms. I always try and leave room for exceptions when I describe the Nirmalay because I know there are

Completely agree with that !

very interesting picture

some amazing pictures !!!!!!!!!

Thanks soo much

got this in email:

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

In between trying to catch Paaji on News24 (hopefully I'll be able to

put a recording of that up soon), responding to emails and a million

other things I managed to capture the network stream from Akash

Radio's net feed.

Before giving the URI's to listen or download the captures, I just

wanted to say that I haven't had time to cut/paste, dice/slice the

recordings so they are complete with Adverts etc. Also I missed the

beginning of the show; which was just a lead in by the presenter.

Additionally I had a network drop after about 20 minutes in to the

show; so there is a small break while I resumed the connection. Hence

why there are 2 files.

Additionally I had to do quite a bit of converting to change them from

a Windows format ASF feed (I'm not a windows user) into MP3 format,

consequently the files are quite big. If you want to wait I will be

able to remove Ads and compress into smaller files later tonight and

reload the updated files.

So given all the above - here are the recordings:

http://june84.org/audio/akash-R4G-part1.mp3

http://june84.org/audio/akash-R4G-part2.mp3

Part 1 is 13Mb in size - approx first 18 minutes

Part 2 is 53 Mb in size - approx last 1h and 16 minutes

Apologies for not getting the whole thing and the size, etc. Marfi.

Given all of the that - it was a very good discussion. And worth listening to.

As for the last guy that phoned in (Gurmukh Singh) - what a joker!! Sigh!