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tsingh, thanks a lot for responding to this, it took me few reads to finally graps some of the parts but some its still little unclear and it does gives room for more questions regarding to this topic-

" To argue that jiva and parmeshvar (rather than jiv and braham) are the same in having the same nirgun and sargun qualities would lead to the conclusion that a brahamgyani becomes the universe (which is a form of sargun parmeshvar only)"

- But we do see such example when this happened, when arjuna asked krishan maharaj to show him vairaat saroop, krishan maharaj showed his vairaat saroop of vahiguroo from his mouth? Now is there any difference between bhramgyanis and sargun avtar? is it because bhramgyanis are not made out of shud satogun and karak bhramgyanis or avtars are? is that the reason why above sakhi is exception?

Also few more questions:

- How much of element in Jiva is made out of agyanta and how much of it is atamsaroop? (million dollar question? thanks to drawrof for this..hehe)

- If atma cannot be sargun only nirgun parbhram, how does one do atam chintan? because, one may still bring atma in form of shakti/chaitanta or sargun parkriti in their surti? is this chintan(meditation) according to sidhant of gurmat advaita? I think this would be ok align with gurmat advait because even if atma cannot be sargun but its chaitanta exist everywhere in each particles of all the sargun parsara right? if you could use further analogy to explain this?

He thought he was Akaal Purkh too.....

As Xylitol pointed out, Guru Sahib was/is sargun saroop of Waheguru themselves, so you can't compare them to Devi/Devte/Avtaars.

There is a huge difference between saying i m akaal purkh in humaie and saying i m akaal purkh(sohang - sohang so jaa ko hai jaap ||

jaa ko lipath n hoe pu(n)n ar paap ||6|| ang- 1162 ) in gyan avastha. How can we say that sri krishan ji indeed said that i m akaal purkh in humaie when he said this to arjuna. , we were not there in dvapar yug at that moment, nor the author which talks about this in articles.

Please listen to gyan thakur singh ji katha of japji sahib, between 1- 10 files i don't remember which one? He clearly shares an sakhi of sri guru angad dev ji talking to sri guru nanak dev ji, how he is seeing mein hi mein in everything. Guru nanak dev ji said, this is gyan avastha purkha but forewarns don't mention to this agyan jaigaso, they may go astray or considers you being with ahankar.

This is exactly whats happening in this thread guys. Matheen, there seems to be an bias in your posts regarding previous hari avtars like- ram, krishan maharaj. i have no intentions of changing your opinions in this matter, after all if sakhi of krishan maharaj/ram chandar shared by sant isher singh ji rara sahib ji and sant jagjit singh ji take on the topic of previous avtars like- ram, krishan and previous avtars status via gurbani tuks/bhai gurdas ji varan cannot change your opinion on this matter, how can i (regular joe blow) change what you believe in?

Lets focus on common ground that we all believe in which is without any question- sri guru nanak dev ji dev nirankar is considered guru avtar in kaliyuga.

The whole keski being kakar debate was badly refuted by amritpal singh amrit on this forum long time ago, i m just trying to find that thread on the forum.. will dig deep for that thread.

Oh boii, if it was up to them, these guys will try to convert jehov witness bibiya's into keski ....sorry can't stop lol.

Can someone scans the flipping article so joe blow people's like me can read it and decide it for ourselves? grrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

Matheen veer,

I think you bought some good points which needs to be addressed.

First of all regarding kalki avtar future avtar, did you know even ravan was also some sort of an avtar? He was a teekakar of soo many granths, somewhere along the way he got humaie, but it was meant to happen, it was akaal purkh's tamasha, its hard to understand his leela where he creates villian out of his attributes and then he creates hero to kill that villian, in this case vahiguroo took avtar of ram to kill that dusht- ravan, same thing will be happening with kalki. In kalyug, there could be only one guru avtar which is sri guru nanak dev ji based on gurbani, kalki may be avtar but its no where it be seen by hari avtar or guru avtar. Kam and other more knowledgeable singh/singhani may be able to tell us what kind of avtar ravan was or kalki will be?

Second of all, regarding your point of krishan asked arjuna to worship him, first of all we don't know the context of it, we don't know if its vairaat saroop of krishan maharaj. Nevertheless, one may consider this comparison but this has to be done to prove a point, from ignorant person's view, if they find out sri guru maharaj ji have multiple wives in their ignorant mind, they may guru ji call sorts of name without understanding livelihood of avtars are different than us, one cannot compare avtars with regular joe blow like us or today's society. People in the past have did this towards other avtars of previous yugas or dharams judge them by wearing goggles of today's society. I think same thing happening in the panth, where missionaries and younger generation of akj does not believe in guru sahiban could have multiple wives and creates all sort of rubbish/insecure protestant type artiles try to debunk that, if they are proven wrong and acknowledge they were wrong that guru's cannot have multiple wives, Even with that going forward, i seriously think they will some elements of dubta/doubts towards their ishatdev/guru maharaj himself in their mind which is quite unfortunate, but they cannot help it because they bought into Protestant/Victorian influence of Sikhi...!

I think in the past i have seen mindset of Sikhs acknowledging that most of guru maharaj sahiban had multiple wives or acknowledging that sri guru hargobind sahib and sri guroo gobind singh ji used to hunt to give mukhti by saying we cannot compare ourselves to avtars, they were karaks, but they are quite hesitant to apply same right mindset to other avtars of previous dharams, one can only wonder, why this double standards?

Thanks much singh for amazing resources link there. Keep up the good stuff coming.

I agree about beating a dead horse, but in their latest recordings they mention the difference between Guru Sahib and previous Avtars.

Yes he did mentions there is a difference between guru sahib and previous avtars in terms of kala(powers). But he also said, just because there is kalan difference does not mean one is higher and other one is lower or my prophet is higher your is lower attitude because vahiguroo transcendent its power (kalan) in each yuga based on the need in each yuga. In kalyuga, pooran satguru was needed with limitless kalan, vahiguroo himself transcedent into sargun saroop of sri guru nanak dev ji, and all the previous yugs needed certain numbers of kalan , so vahiguroo himself transcedent in form of ram chandar ji, krishan maharaj, bavan avtar with different set of kalan. I guess main point we need to look at , where all this come from? do the previous avtar comes from satan? if yes , then off course they are evil (Christian take), but if they do comes from vahiguroo himself, how could vahiguroo transcendent into this earth in form of previous avtar considers failure, incompetent is beyond me.

Sant jagjit singh ji also said, sri guru nanak dev ji were anadi/nirankari jot , they were indeed all the along all the yugas, but certain insecure mindset like to hijack this into "my prophet is higher than your attitude". I felt that strong need to ask him, was sri guru nanak dev ji nirankari jot took form of ram chandar, krishan and bhavan in respective yugas? He said, yes quoted bhai svaieye, and bhai gurdas ji varan.

I meant either way you look at it in the course of being paranoid at one point one seems to get stuck, one cannot escape, gurbani nirana(decision) on avtarwood, it proves previous avtars before sri guru nanak dev ji didn't came from "Satan" but vahiguroo transedent its beauty, kalan into avtars based on the need of each yugas. I meant certain mindset cannot stand this fact, they seriously don't have answers to bhai gurdas ji varan, bhaite swaie, sri dasam granth sahib take on concept of avtars.

If the Gita has no relevance for the Sikhs why would Sri Guru Gobind SIngh Ji personally compose a translation of it which can be found in some Dasam Granths. The Upanishads again were translated by the poets of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's court. Selected of portions can be found in the book called the Darbari Rattan by Piara Singh Padam.

The Sidhant within the Gita and Upanishads are all in accordance of Vedanta which is the self realisation of the soul. This is the same concept as Gurbani 'Man Tu jot Saroop hai Apna Mool Pahichan'.

To read the Gita and Upanishads is for the individual to do if they feel this can help them comprehend the details of Vedanta. Personally i have read some of them and find them helpful in understanding the use of gurbani and the bhav arths.

perfect post singh, i totally agree with you 110%.

That's not what Guru Sahib says in Dasam Bani.

This is discussed earlier, to understand this bani in bachitar natak lets look at the conditions of both dharams- islam and hinduism around sri guru gobind singh ji time- these dharam followers start idiolizing their prophets instead of focusing on the prophets message they start bickering among each other who's prophet is better? and started idiolizing their prophets mind you this happens at sikh dharam as well which is sad.. anyway coming back to the point, around that time, this was a condition of the people who represented hinduism and islam. Guru maharaj looking at the sad state of people he deannouced this idiolizing of devi's/devta's and hari avtars like krishan/ram by reciting this tuk - Main Na Ganesha pritham maniyoo Kishan bishan kabhoo na Dhiayoo Kaan sune pehchan na tin ko Liv laagi mori pag unso" - I don't worship deities Krishna,Ganesha or Bishan

I have heard about them but do not recognise them. My saviour is One God, the almighty.

Now this is very important in the same sri dasam granth sahib bani- sri guru gobind singh ji warns his sikhs too regarding this of this grave danger that many hindus and muslims fell into idiolizing their prophet, he warned his sikhs by also reciting the tuk - aad ant eka avtara sohi sumjaieo guru hamera || that my guru is vahiguroo himself but when you look at sri guru gobind singh ji sahib life, his father was sri guru tegh bahudar sahib ji was his gyan data guru despite of that he said my guru is vahiguroo himself so that sikhs dont go astry idiolizing the deh or avtars. not only that in bachitar natak itself sri guru gobind singh ji went far as saying- those who call me god will burn in hell, one shouldnt take this tuk literally nor one should take that tuk as form of showing nirmata, guru ji had very clear message behind this, we should try to understand what guru ji is saying- guru ji again warning his sikhs not to idiolize me but focus on my message- shabad guru. Sri guru gobind singh ji is warning his sikhs not fo fall for this

Also to further reinforce my point, guru ji is avtar of vahiguroo we all agree so as krishan and ram. To future reinforce my point that krishan maharaj and ram chandar ji and all other hindu gods were avtars of vahiguroo.. sri guru gobind singh ji mentions this tuk in sri dasam granth sahib:

nirgun vahiguroo actualy transcedent in form of avtar in satyug/dvapar/treta from beginning of avtars birth to give gyan and benefit human kind we seem to ignore bhai gurdas ji varan and sri dasam patsah bachan in sri dasam granth sahib :

Jab Jab Arsat Hot Sansara ||

Tab Tab Deh Dharat Avtara He said in sri dasam bani again-

Then Bhai gurdas ji mentions: Jag Jag Satgur Dharie Avatari ||

In each age, the true guru will take avtar - nirgun vahiguroo transcedent itself into avtar.

Sri Guru gobind singh ji was very blunt in his message in his rachna- sri dasam guru granth sahib but that shouldnt be taken as form of disrespect to hindu gods but an reality of sargun avtars(which includes him as well). Here is another one

Ek Shiv bhai ek gyaie ek pher paie ram chandar kai avtar bhi anek hai ... (Sri Akaal Ustat)

He is telling us the reality of avtarhood that we(avtars) come go give the message of vahiguroo, its very important to follow the messsage not idiolize the messenger because avtars bodies were also made of 5 elements of shud satogun..one day they have to transcedent back to where they came from.

In essence, guru ji never criticized the krishan or ram he critized the people who idiolized them in above manner. Its absurd to think guru maharaj criticized previous avtars when avtars themselves come from Vahiguroo not Satan.

Matheen, please listen to discussion with sant jagjit singh ji from the last year. I don't want to beat the dead horse here.

Based on the gurbani- krishan, ram chandar are avtars of vahiguroo, to suggest that they failed, it implies- Vahiguroo himself is quite incompetent not capable to do the job properly as in send proper avtars in each respective yuga's to benefit human kind.

in chapter 8, Arjuna asks Krishna whether its best to worship the formless or Krishna's body where Krishna then says its best to worship his body.

is this the reason why in bachitar natak it says the previous avatars promoted their own worship only

Thats not what this sakhi meant. This sakhi is about krishna giving updesh to arjuna to meditate on vairat saroop of sargun vahiguroo. Previous avtar didnt fai' the movements its the followers who went astray from the path because they misinterpreted the teaching. Please listen to discussion with sant jagjit singh ji on this.

they are obviously not that great then

all are a waste of time, why would a degree student (sikh) go to playschool?

Simple answer, gurbani does not talk about basics but tat gyan of sidhants like- karam, atma, paratma, surti, samadhi, koshas, panj tat, panj gyan indraie, pamj karam indraie, antish karan- man, chit, budd, ahankar. To get basic understanding of such concepts you probably need to get gyan from books which offer basic understanding ie- vedant. I don't think one can understand tat gyan message behind gurbani without getting basic understanding of the concepts. This has nothing to do with hinduism or any ism for that matter.

I have asked a friend to send me copy of detailed rehit maryada from nanaksar samparda. As soon as he will send me the copy, i ll post it here.

Neo Singh ji or Kam Veerji,

If possible could you please put up the link to this Baba Sahib Singh Bedi katha?

Thanks

I will search in my archives see if i can find the audio, if i do i will post it up asap for download...sorry i just need to look for it singh !

Anand mangal

Thanks for responding on this topic tsingh, I agree atma in essence is nirgun, there is no question about that. If atma is truly believed to be parbhram Vahiguroo then it also must have qualities of Vahiguroo as well which is - nirgun and sargun. One may believe and realize based on their surti sitting in nirgun avastha that sargun parsara is all result of agyan or one may believe and realize based on their surti in nirgun avastha that all sargun parsara is indeed all parbhram, jot roop, atamsaroop which lead their surti to not to differentiate between sargun and nirgun.

Main question here comes down to - Does Gurbani supports that sargun parsara(creation) is all result of agyan or sargun pasara is all jot/atam roop? or both?

I have found gurbani supporting latter view more which is sargun saroop of vahiguroo itself is all jot roop which will lead us in nirgun parbhram once one's surti is in sun samadhi.

Gurbani tuks like-

Zami Zaman Kaie Bikhaie Na Samasth

Ik jot hai Na Ghat Hai Na Bhad Hai

Na Ghat Bhad hoth hai ||

sabhai ghat raam bolai raamaa bolai.

Within all hearts, the Lord speaks, the Lord speaks.

raam binaa ko bolai ray. ||1|| rahaa-o.

Who else speaks, other than the Lord? ||1||Pause|Sabh Ghat Ram Bholaie Ram ||

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਏਕੁ ਏਕੁ ਵਖਾਣੀਐ ॥

breham dheesai breham suneeai eaek eaek vakhaaneeai ||

ਆਤਮ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਕਰਣਹਾਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੀਐ ॥

aatham pasaaraa karanehaaraa prabh binaa nehee jaaneeai ||

sabh gobind hai sabh gobind hai gobind bin nahee ko-ee ||

enjoy !

Hello i am just trying to find more information on nastrology vidya? I heard this vidya orginated from southern part of India. I have very basic info on this vidya, basically this vidya gives idea on one's past life accurately. Does anyone have bit more information on this? I would personally love to know my previous life. I think by knowing my previous life i will solve lot of riddles/obstacles of this life in bhagti.

taken from: tapoban.org

Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh jee on Death

By Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh jee

Translated by Admin www.tapoban.org

ਨਹਬਾਰਿਕਨਹਜੋਬਨੈਨਹਬਿਰਧੀਕਛੁਬੰਧੁ ॥

ਓਹਬੇਰਾਨਹਬੂਝੀਐਜਉਆਇਪਰੈਜਮਫੰਧੁ ॥(254)

Many many have left this world and many keep leaving, but the deluded individual, stuck in the web of maya and illusion and deceived by desire does not believe that he too will have to leave. The closest and most beloved friends have left before his eyes and keep leaving, but the friend left behind keeps believing and has convinced himself that he will never leave. He has this false hope that he will remain at this place forever.

The nagaara (drum) of death may beat at everyone’s head but everyone everywhere believes that “this drum is not for me, it is only for others”. Some are completely unaware that we too one day will be the prey of this death. And some deceive themselves by thinking that remembering death is a trouble and think, “when it’s time to die, death will come itself. To think about death before that is pointless. Enjoy your days of youth and enjoy life while you have it. When death comes, we’ll worry about it then. It is not as though life is finished quite yet.”

But they who say this do not understand “ਮਰਣਿਨਮੂਰਤੁਪੁਛਿਆਪੁਛੀਥਿਤਿਨਵਾਰੁ ॥” (1244) and nor do they have news that “ਹਮਆਦਮੀਹਾਂਇਕਦਮੀਮੁਹਲਤਿਮੁਹਤੁਨਜਾਣਾ ॥”(660).

What trust can we put on our breaths? A breath could come or not come. Death is not bound by the condition that it must only come in old age. Some leave in the prime of youth. Some do not even come into youth and leave in childhood. When we daily see death take away lives like this every day, then how can we have hope of more life? And what anticipation of a long life can remain? And what purpose or benefit are those days that pass under this false hope and desire?

Living life while unaware of death and wanting a long life is something that falls in the pages of sin. According to the gurvaak “ਵਾਟਵਟਾਊਆਇਆਨਿਤਚਲਦਾਸਾਥੁਦੇਖੁ ॥”, we should know death to always be upon our heads yet at the same time we should not live life in fear of death, but in fear of sin and tremble in the terror of committing sin. And in this solemn and fearful state we should put right our lives and make our life-journey worthwhile. In this way we can remove the fear of death from our minds. In this state, death is not death, it is liberation. In a state of fearlessness of death, leaving is not death, it is Akaal ChalaaNaa (leaving for the timeless one). In this way, dying as a MarjeevaRaa (one who has died while alive ie. Gursikh) is not death but having set right one’s death.

Blessed are the lives of those individuals who have died this way and set right their deaths. “ਜੀਵਤਸਾਹਿਬੁਸੇਵਿਓਅਪਨਾਚਲਤੇਰਾਖਿਓਚੀਤਿ ॥” (1000). We hear about those sacred souls in the Guru’s home who have completed their life-journey according to the given gurvaak and had Akaal ChalaaNaa. But has the enthusiasm to follow the example of such individuals ever arisen in our hearts? If it has not, then know that as of yet, within our souls, that seed of dharma (faith) has not grown which will give life to our God-oriented Panthic jeevan.

Otherwise, our panthic history is completely filled with sacred examples to follow. In this present time too, before our eyes, there are many individuals with Gurmukh jeevan who do Akaal ChalaaNaa and give us their example to encourage us. But we do not notice them at all and we do not change. Nor does the fear of death touch us nor does the desire to imitate the soul of one who does Akaal ChalaaNaa rise within us.

Hello,

Here is the audio version of old classic asa di var by puratan namdhari gurmukhs. I am in the process of getting video version of that asa di var from other premis, i used to have it but i lost it. Anyway enjoy the audio version of it:

Here are the download links: save on the link below and save target as:

Asa Di Var Classic pt 1

Asa Di Var Classic pt 2

Asa Di Var Classic pt 3

I asked this question to baba jagjit singh ji, can we consider atma as sargun saroop ?? He said atma is nirgun. Very good straight forward answer, but he did not said explicitly that atma is not sargun. I m not questioning what he said, may be he said it for easy understanding so that one does not limit atma to sargun saroop of paratma and start idiolizing it. I open this discussion to get sangat view on this.

I think atma can be consider sargun roop for understanding but real essence of atma is nirgun. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself gives example of this in Sri Akaal Ustat:

Zami Zaman Kaie Bikhaie Na Samasth

Ik jot hai Na Ghat Hai Na Bhad Hai

Na Ghat Bhad hoth hai ||

What do you guys think?

vah ji vah, pure anand mangal. Best way is to express love is through music..vah ji vah

source: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/2...swat/index.html

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Pakistani authorities on Thursday deployed paramilitary troops to a district, only 96 kilometers (60 miles) from the capital, where Taliban militants appeared to be consolidating control after this week's land-grab.

Pakistan has deployed paramilitary troops to a district taken over by the Taliban.

Militants locked up courthouses and seized court documents in the district of Buner, said police Superintendent Arsala Khan.

However, a highly placed Buner official said the judges left voluntarily after meeting with Taliban leaders.

A van carrying Frontier Corps paramilitary troops through the district came under fire Thursday. One police official was killed and another wounded, authorities said.

The troops were sent to protect civilians and properties, said Maj. Gen Athar Abbas, spokesman for Pakistan's military.

He said the government was monitoring the situation closely, and talks were under way among community elders, the civilian administration and the Taliban.

"Taliban is only in control of 25 percent of Buner district," Abbas said. "The Taliban will either move out or they'll be thrown out, one way or another."

The militant group's leaders met with community elders and the civilian administration Thursday and agreed that its members will not move about openly with guns nor will they disturb police, courts, schools, hospitals or non-governmental organizations.

The takeover of Buner brings the Taliban closer to the capital, Islamabad, than it has been since the insurgency started.

The Taliban commander in Buner, Mowlana Mohammed Khalil, gave a statement before Pakistani television cameras Wednesday, appearing with his face hidden behind a cloth mask. Video Watch as Taliban is emboldened »

"We came here only to preach Islam," Khalil said. He added that his fighters were carrying weapons only because they were an important symbol for Muslims.

The militants said they took control of the Buner district to ensure that Islamic law, or sharia, was properly imposed. The Pakistani government called the advance into the district a breach of a recently signed peace agreement.

Residents of Buner said the militants had set up checkpoints and were patrolling streets throughout the district.

Speaking by telephone from Buner on Wednesday night, Sardar Hussain Babik, education minister for the North West Frontier Province regional government, accused the militants of looting the offices of non-government organizations and stealing cars. Video Watch Clinton on Taliban threat »

"This is an open violation," Babik said. He said it was the government's duty to re-assert its authority in the region, and added that troops were being mustered to resist the Taliban.

"We are collecting from different parts of the province," he said.

A few hours' drive away, in the Pakistani capital, salesmen hawking Urdu newspapers in morning traffic on Thursday called out headlines over the din of car engines. IReport:Should the U.S. interfere in Pakistan?

"Taliban has entered Islamabad," a newsboy yelled.

On Wednesday, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Pakistan was in danger of falling into terrorist hands because of failed government policies, and called on Pakistani citizens and expatriates to voice more concern.

"I think that we cannot underscore the seriousness of the existential threat posed to the state of Pakistan by continuing advances, now within hours of Islamabad, that are being made by a loosely confederated group of terrorists and others who are seeking the overthrow of the Pakistani state, a nuclear-armed state," Clinton told the House Foreign Affairs Committee in her first appearance before Congress since being confirmed.

"I don't hear that kind of outrage and concern coming from enough people that would reverberate back within the highest echelons of the civilian and military leadership of Pakistan."

Mike Mullen, U.S. chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, was in Islamabad on Wednesday to meet with Pakistani officials.

Taliban militants implemented Islamic law in Pakistan's violence-plagued Swat Valley last week, before taking control of the neighboring Buner district. But Pakistan's ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, told CNN on Wednesday that the situation was not as dire as Clinton described.

"Yes, we have a challenge," Haqqani said. "But, no, we do not have a situation in which the government or the country of Pakistan is about to fall to the Taliban."

Taliban fighters moved into the Swat Valley as part of a peace deal with the government that has come under fire from U.S. observers. But Haqqani compared it to the deals U.S. commanders in Iraq made to peel insurgents away from Islamic jihadists blamed for the worst attacks on civilians there.

Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani said at a news briefing Thursday: "I want to explain to the West and Hillary Clinton about the agreement. ... The agreement is actually a very good thing. ... It brings two parties to an agreement based on mutual understanding."

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"We have to establish control of government in Malakand division," which includes Swat, he said. "If peace is not restored in that area [Malakand], certainly we have to review our policy."

"If there is an effort of Taliban-ization, we have the right to review our policy.

I think if nothing is done, these fanatic taliban mullahs will take over islamabad. am i the only one who find pakistan sending troops to the area move staged or its genuine concern as a result they are moving in troops? Before people with fanatic mentality somehow got into ISI, which state gov't acknowledged now

this?

All the minority living in Pakistan should be really concerned at this, I think if pakistan govt does not do anything, minorities will be forcefully converted to Islam or killed, raped, prosecuted in jailed. I think not just minority but moderate muslims are concerned about this too as twisted version of islamic sharia law will be imposed on them.

Please discuss...!

N30 Singh Jee, is this Gurdwara being opened by Kala Afghanist people? I know that alot of Kala Afghanists live in Canada especially Brampton area. More Gurdwaras the better is the way I see it. But if the Gurdwara that is being open is going to end up being a center for Kala Afghanist activity, then that is a reason to worry.

I actually don't know if all the committee members of that new gurdwara subscribe to kala afghana thinking but i definitely see an influence, just type go to their gurdwara website, you will see they got katha's of ghugga and missionary type guys.

Matheen veer, you may want to post this brochure which is in punjabi on sikhsangat , so sangat is aware. There is lot of people on there who lives in brampton. I live in brampton as well, i know where is this place, its industrial area, two blocks off there is full fledged gurdwara called Glidden Gurdwara. First of all , missionaries topic aside, i just don't understand why there is 10 gurdwara's in brampton just within 20 km radius. It's becoming franschise business. There is hardly any gurdwara where homeless people live which is Toronto Core Downton so these homeless people can be fed, sikhs days are much concerned about fame, money than following true concept of langar laid down by Sri Guru Amar Das Ji. anyway enough of my rant. lol

I just received an email with two brochure one in English and one in Punjabi. Please see- attachment below. English brochure seems fine but as soon as you have a glimpse of Punjabi one, its quite alarming and concerning. Basically, missionaries managed to open up full fledged parchar center in Gurdwara made by them where they can do anti gurmat sidhant parchar with full throttle. Now i m not saying they should be shut down or given fatwas. There are few main concerns with this move:

1. There should be Sikh parchar center based on original/puratan Gurmat Sidhant values side by side as well, so seekers can decide themselves instead of letting them brainwash and mislead new comers to the sikhi path and sikh youths.

2. It's quite hypocritical of our jathedars and soo called panthic organizations first to pledge an action against kala afghana/bhausaria mindset then make a U turn and sleep with them on a same manji. As you can see from brouchure below, and their website, jathedar of sri akaal takth sahib ji and jathedar of akhand kirtani jatha having no problem taking in part with those who have disrespected sri dasam granth sahib ji and follow bhausaria mindset doubting bhai gurdas ji varan, sat-balvand vaar, bhatt swaie and other important gurmat sidhants.

drama, drama and more drama. isn't there any green party there or something where people who does not want to vote for these chors- bjp and congress, can vote for minority party instead?