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Guys I have discovered something recently which has cleared all my doubts regarding diversity of techniques, basically don't look it as different techniques or be confused about it but look at it rather as different techniques at different stages towards vahiguroo-atma-paratma based on each individual state of mind. Please see read the post below- especially attachment from bhannu parkash by sant jagjit singh ji harkhowal:

According to traditional gurmat, there are three types of students as such- intial updesh in Gurbani is addressed to three types of students where gurbani updesh is given(via hakumnama, mahapursh-sadh sangat etc) accordingly to based on student state of mind, based on student depth. There are ways to finding your state of mind/clear doubts one has- one of most recommended way- one is being in sadh sangat (soceity of saints) which gurbani emphasizes over and over again because one may not see their road blocks but in sadh sangat- soceity of saints those road blocks- doubts/sansa could be cleared and 2nd it gives one reality check of ego all the time being in sadh sangat as mere mortals can really fall a trap of ego.

Gurbani is agam agad bodh, its fully connected with our human consciousness, it talks to individual in many ways- some time outright slap via hakumnama, sometime through ishara/very subtle way via hakumnama/mahapursh katha/updesh..so at the end, its the student duty to decipher updesh from gurbani given to them blunt or sutble..sadh sangat or in sangat of mahapursh is also recommended as per gurbani, so they can further guide the student or alternatively, student can also honestly self reflect and grade themselves.

Bhai Gurdas Ji talks about:

Vaar 7 - Pauri 3 (Tin di ginati-gurmukh)

Brahama Bisanu Mahesu trai bk ved gun gian langhae.
Bhut bhavikhahu varatamanu adi madhi jini anti sidhae.
Man bach karam ikatr kari jamman maran jivan jini de.
Adhi biadhi upddhi sadhi surag mirat pdtal nivae.
Utamu madham nich sadhi balak joban biradhi jinae.
Ira pingula sukhamand trikuti langhi tribeni nhae.
Gurmukhi ika mani iku dhiae.

Also Sant Maharaj Baba Isher Singh Ji Rara sahib wale along with damdami taksal jathedars also talks about three types of student:

source: Ishvar Amalok Lal (personal dairy of sant isher singh ji rara sahib and also see-japji sahib audio katha by gyani thakur singh ji)

1. Kanishtt Bhajneek (ਕਨਿਸ਼ਟ ਭਜਨੀਕ) - Those who cannot concentrate their minds during paath or meditation are called Kanishtt (Low-level). Still, they are much better than those who do not take any initative at all.
2. Maddham Bhajneek (ਮੱਧਮ ਭਜਨੀਕ) - They try to control their minds during worship. Sometimes they are successful at it.
3. Uttam Bhajneek (ਉੱਤਮ ਭਜਨੀਕ) - Their minds settles down well during meditation/worship. They are able to find peace.

In layman terms consider kanisth student as - beginner, madham jaigaso- intermediate and utam jaigaso- advanced.

As there are three types of students, and there are various updesh in gurbani addressed to three types of students, when it comes naam simran, there are also similar classification. Please see-attached

Lizard, thanks for your response..i totally agree with your statement "I truly believe we love the same God" ... i have been reading the mystic tradition of Christianity -Gnosis..its amazing...it has so many similiarites with spiritual Sikh thought.

Chatanga is right here, there are no restrictions in sikh dharam as such as to who does the last rite and gives departed one good bye as each one of us have different karma, we are only judged by our actions- be it good or bad.

This is just tip of iceberg..i think $h!t is going to hit the fan real soon if our leaders don't step up and calm up these protesters to stop ruining someone special day- marriage ( i don't care what their justifications are). I don't believe in band aid fixes/knee jerk reaction approach without looking at larger implications so i will cut to chase.

I think our leaders need to call an emergency meeting regarding anand karaj to strike a right balance- re-tweak sikh marriage- have massive parchar highlighting importance of anand karaj ceremony, have amrit sanchar before anand karaj ceremony but at the same time- provide alternative granthi chaplain service - recitation of gurbani verses (happy events- lakh khusiya patsahi etc) followed by anand sahib for non amritdharis/non sikhs who just want blessing of guru sahib and follow sikhi at their own gradual speed, at their own accord, at their own will and at their own terms.

Awesome... It's about time we tell the world about Sikh super hero's.. Above art itself speaks volumes.

I think asking nihang singh or namdhari singh would be your best bet.

Well we can just rename the download section- http://www.sikhawareness.com/index.php/forum/22-download-centre/

what do you reckon? Any eye catching name/suggestion?

Video, Documentary, Media, Download Center?

Of course he does, he's just waiting for Harjap Bhangal to find him a good Jatt boy from the pindh.

mega lol...lol..fauji high on feem = pure tarki..!!l lol..!!

Sivia_girl ji, welcome to the forum..i hope you enjoy your stay...i totally agree with you i think most of us on here totally believe that Sri Guru nanak dev ji maharaj was puran avtar of Vahiguroo..!!!!!!!!!!!!!

totally agree with singh598...gurbani gives indications..i think gurbani itself blends sargun bhagti and nirgun gyan so well at the end sargun is nirgun, nirgun is sargun to the point where human avastha is one advait (IkOngkar).

Here are few threads i managed to dig from past, they are kind of inter-related with this topic...please read them, they are quite deep for your reference:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/index.php/topic/6890-destination-sachkhand/?hl=destination

http://www.sikhawareness.com/index.php/topic/9444-become-god-in-sachkhand-shankara-non-dualistic-theory-aling

http://www.sikhawareness.com/index.php/topic/7183-gurmat/

Most recent one i managed to put it together:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/index.php/topic/14813-gurmat-relations-towards-advait-marg-bhakti-marg/

This is interesting topic, love to get more replies...i will move this topic under topic of the week for now to get more exposure.

Welcome back parchand bro...may be make dhabba type tarka

Just quickly here is my understanding not sure if its right-

1. Avidya is ignorance of this jiv that he is jiv not atma-paratma roop, that actual perception that he is separate entity from Vahiguroo.

2. It's created by maya upon vahiguroo transcendent its creation, maya itself on its own is jarr just matter so since maya itself cannot sustain itself, vahiguroo chaitanta(supreme consciousness shakti) nourishing its maya,

3. Avidya It's neither real or fake, its connected with our human consciousness/meta reality/perception. It exist as long as human consciousness perceives it, as soon as human consciousness perceives bhramgyan of real self, avidya is no where to be found in that human consciousness/perception.

4. Great question, as far i understand- avidya does not exist in atma/bhraman but rather exist in this jiv/individual perception who is perceiving their self to be separate, everything is connected with human consciousness and its perception of perceiving things.

I will explain understanding little more tomorrow.

Sorry about that guys, I have zipped all the pages into one single download file. Please download pages from discourse on the beyond from the link below:

http://www.2shared.com/file/_3Jejk0H/Pages_from_Discourses_on_the_b.html

Click on the small download button at the bottom.

No worries bro, this is pure piss take hope someone take legal action against these guys.

Good post , mahasingh veer.

We all need to go back in time to our innocent childhood days to invoke that child like devotion..vahiguroo..!!

good to hear from you..do post more purkha

The question of how much of Gurmat is orginal has puzzled me. Reading Advait Vadanta clearly has many simlierties with Sikhi. Can anyone point to what are the difference of these two.

Sikhi has a element of advaita (compelete non dualism between individual and vahiguroo) but its not raw form of advaita. Sikhi is pure sargun-nirgun marg. In sikhi, sargun is nirgun and nirgun is sargun, there is no difference whatsoever..In sikhi, sargun and nirgun are blended beautifully and splendidly. However, other mats always are either nirole sargun-vaishav or nirole nirgun- raw adi sankarcharya advaita.

I would say closest orders to Sikhi spirituality/Gurmat sidhant would be - sufism and as bhagat singh pointed out earlier- Vishishtaadvaita Vedanta( qualified advait).

This topic is interesting one, i will move this topic to topic of the month so it gets more exposure.

Very touching and moving story.. Please share more and more.

Ouka ji, that was deep insightful post...thanks for sharing it.

Here is my personal take on this-

Each religion have basic foundations- basic do and don't's so the new comer make its foundation strong does not wander away, or looses its focus..so in sikhi as well- sex before marriage is also consider one of things need to be avoided.

Overall in the topic of sex after marriage.

Sikh idea of marriage is very sacred, its called anand karaj consist of four vows which actually symbolises state of mind, state of being.

Anand Karaj is fully divine in nature.The whole four lavan in anand karaj are actually four states partner together as one "unit' supposed to walk on. For eg- 1st lavan- Embracing the righteous code of dharam-sikh religion, 2nd Lavan - listening to guru's discourses and acting up on it - being imbued in naam simran/meditation as result unstruck resosance of divine sound- shabada resonates in couple's inside - 3rd Lavan - couple having sangat of soceity of saints and true bairaag is known, followed by fourth lavan- heart blossoms forth in the Naam, and there is full union with husband lord.

Symbolically, couples are considered bride and Vahiguroo/God is considered true husband..!!

Philosophy of sikh marriage, meant for uniting with divine its not to pay super importance to sex....that does not mean its forbidden ..no its not forbidden, its perfectly natural and it depends if individual perception have lust element in it then its condemned but if its purely act to show an affection towards an partner then its fine..ultimately, it depending on two individual perception.

Now sikh idea of marriage does not revolve around sex..sex is there to create, show each other affection but thats pretty much it. Real purpose of sikh marriage to couple together as one unit- go deep internally, go introvert to find divine, as divine is inside of us.

Human body is full of energy points. In marriage, if both couples have mutual understanding and have some desire to progress in spiritual sikhi, one does not need to do sex to sustain there relationship. It's quite possible to channel one's sexual energy push it upwards towards higher energy where one can utilize this energy towards meditation

I think the key here, mutual understanding between couples and if both agree and very serious on the path of spirituality, they can easily give up sex by channeling sexual energy upwards so it could be utilize else where naam simran..

At the end of day to put in contrast- anand/bliss one gets from bhog is small drop of anand/bliss compare to divine meditational bliss which is huge sea of bliss compare to an individual who has merged in God, which is endless ocean of bliss..who wants to get or dwell around drop of anand/bliss where one has potential to get ocean of anand/bliss..!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome Ouka to Sikhawareness..hope you enjoy your stay here..!!

awesome bro..i have been regarding sri ramana maharishi life..its very inspiring..did they had any interaction with sikh bhramgyani mahapursh?

Sat siri akaal ji,

I hope all is well with you. Thanks for sharing your expereince towards sikhi..there is an greater divine force invoking you to search for spirituality and sikhi.

It appears you need real sangat of sikhs, don't feel awkard. Guru has instructed to his sikhs and non sikhs alike that its very important to be in the company where his divine name is praised/sung and where divine is discussed.

As you advised you live in france, i was able to search few sikh groups in france in real life- which you may want to contact:

http://www.facebook....226911947340057

Alternatively you can also contact non sikhs who are french who converted into sikhism - http://www.3ho-lafon...ntation&lang=fr

As far the cyber space goes, we at sikhawareness.com are always there to help with any of your inquires questions you may have regarding Sikhism, you can also use our search feature to search on our forum. I will start with giving you link to read on Sikhism- concept of God to read, discuss- http://www.sikhawareness.com/index.php/topic/14942-sikh-concept-of-god/

Gurmat is not *RAW* form of advait vedanta which is (gyan of self-atma, to see this whole jagat mithiya) nor its *RAW* form of vaishav mat - raw bhagti nor its *RAW* form of shabad surat-yog vidhiya.

In Gurmat concept of creator residing in kudrat beauty in asa di var- loving/be memerized seeing the whole creation, sri akal ustat- creator residing in its creation and concept of whole world being mithiya/destructive, an illusion- shalok mahalla 9 by sri guru tegh bahudar ji are both blended together along with above- bhagti, gyan, shabad surat such is beauty of Gurmat..!!

i will try to explain more in detail later on and hopefully more learned members such tsingh, kam, mekchan jennat and many others can contribute to this very interesting thread as well.!!