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New inbreed christian bhusaria approach- unbelievable..!!

http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,31096

As my favorite month of the year " Vaisakh" is approaching I have been reading the controversial text " Kattak Ke Vaisakh". Though I disagree with much of its content, however I appreciate Sardar Karam Singh Jis effort in being one of the first Gursikhs to make a critical analysis on one of the most prominent existing Janam Sakhis.

A few weeks ago a Singh who has a degree in history was mentioning how there are many contradictions in the text " Sri Guru Granth Parkaash", and there is not much historiography within circles of Sikhi . Unfortunately, his comments are true. Compared to other religions our history has not been thoroughly examined. For example, before the New Testament was canonized by the Catholic Church each gospel was examined by the learned leaders of the Church. Any gospel which contradicted the Old testament was removed. Before the Hadith was accepted by the Umma the Islamic scholars examined each story associated with Muhammad and filtered out any stories which contradicted the Quaran. However, in Sikhi there are many Sakhis which contradict Gurbani and contradict the Vaars of Bhai Gurdas Ji but we have not filtered out any of these sakhis. SGPC have a duty to gather all the learned theologians and historians who have Naam Kamaee and make an attempt to do a critical analysis on the existing sakhis.

Sardar Karam Singh Ji was one of the first to make a critical analysis but such an analysis is not a " one man" job; instead, the SGPC should gather all learned and devotional Gursikhs to review our written history and then promote it to the wider panth. During the Singh Sabha movement at a time when the dates of the Gurpurab were being settled the birth date of Sri Guru Nanak Ji was being questioned. The historian Sardar Karam Singh Ji was one of the Gursikhs who opposed to the date of Sri Guru Jis avtaar by questioning the most prominent text ( Bhai Bala Jis Janam Sakhi) which supports the date as Kattak Pooranmash. Sardar Ji goes as far to even question the existence of a Bhai Bala. In addition, he states these sakhis did not exist during the times of Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji. Personally, I think Sardar Ji was too critical on the text just to prove the date of the avtaar was in Vaisakh and not Kattak. First and foremost Bhai Bala Ji and his Janam Sakhi do not clearly support the date as Kattak Pooranmashi. The reason being when Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji asked the birth date of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Bhai Bala Ji responds " I dont know". Only after viewing the family horoscope do they mark the date as Kattak Pooranmashi. One can still accept the sakhi and acknowledge Bhai Bala Ji without accepting the birth date of the Pandits horoscope.

Sardar Ji does make some good points in his book such as Sri Guru Ji would never bow down to any Bhagat ( SukhChein) because ਸਭ ਤੇ ਵਡਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ! Also some of the geographical distances mention in the sakhi contradict one another. These findings are proof that some diabolical character tampered with the original sakhis. Though Sardar Ji makes some good arguments he also makes some very irrational and weak statements about some of the most prominent sakhis. For instance in regards to the" Sacha Sauda Sakhi " he denies it because according to him " the father of a Khatri would never send his son with a Jatt to make an exchange in the marketplace. How can a Jatt ( farmer) help out a Khatri?" . These type of statements are weak because Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not a typical Khatri. He did not care for the trade of material wealth. He was completely careless with the affairs of money. Bhai Bala Ji was his older childhood friend and Mehta Kalu sent Bhai Bala Ji to keep an eye on his son. We know from previous sakhis that Sri Guru Ji did not take his work seriously so according to Mehta Kalu Ji he needed some supervision. During the sakhi when Sri Guru Ji makes the remark that he is going to make the true trade on the hungry sadhus Bhai Bala Ji reminded him that his dad would not be happy.

Sardar Ji also finds fault in the sakhi associated with Sri Guru Jis udasi to Medina. In this sakhi there is mention of Sri Guru ji placing his charan towards Prophet Muhammads tomb which is located in Medina . One of the Muslims get angry at Sri Guru Ji and Sri Guru Ji says move my feet where there is no tomb, and as his charan was being dragged to each direction a tomb appeared. Sardar Ji does not accept this sakhi because according to him and the writing of Bhai Gurdas Ji this episode did not exist in Medina instead it happened in Mecca. However, the Kabba in Mecca and the tomb in Medina are monuments which Muslims worship so why wouldnt Sri Guru Ji test the beliefs of these believers in both places? There are numerous Gubani tuks which prohibit " grave worship".

One of the themes we notice of Sardar Karam SIngh Ji is " Bhai Bala Jis Janam Sakhis were invented to invoke anger among Muslims". Sardar Ji goes as far as to question Sri Guru going to numerous realms and reaching the highest realm Sri Sach Khand. He states that according to Islam there are 7 underworlds and 7 high worlds . According to Muslims the Prophet went on a night journey where he visited all the 6 heavens and then finally reached the highest heaven where he had direct communion with God. Sardar Ji claims that Sri Guru Jis travels to the celestial worlds make it out so there are 13 higher worlds keeping Sach Khand as the highest. So all these khands Sri Guru Ji traveled were a copy of Muhammads " Miraj Journey" as an attempt to anger Muslims making Sri Guru Ji more superior to the Prophet. At face value Sardar Jis argument seems compelling because in Sri Japji Sahib there is mention of 5 spiritual khands and in the Janam Sakhis only Sach Khand is mentioned. But if one to actually read the journey to the Khands mentioned in the Janam Sakhis then we come to the conclusion that Sri Guru Ji visited Bhagats in these numerous Khands. These were great Bhagats who did lots of Bhagti but they did not receive the full grace of receiving Naam in Sri Sach Khand. All the Bhagats claim Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji as the Greatest Bhagat and he will receive naam from Sri Sach Khand and redeem not only jeevs on this planet but other planets as well. We all know through Gurbani and the vaars of Bhai Gurdas Ji that Sri Guru Ji not only spread the true name through out the whole universe after receiving the true naam from Sri Sach Khand. This is one of the basic beliefs of Sikhi.

Sardar Ji questions the celestial travels because there is contradiction between the distances of these realms in relation to the Sun and one another. According to the Sakhi, some planets are a certain distance above the Sun. Sardar Ji rightfully reject this claim on the basis that advance science has discovered that the Sun is not above the planets; instead, planets orbit around the sun. Also in the sakhis there is mention of some planets being at a distiance which accoring to him modern science proves such as close distance is impossible because no planet can be so close to the Sun. Secondly in the sakihs there is mention of some planets being close to one another , but Sardar Jis claim according to advancements of modern science the telescope proves planets cannot be so close to one another. He is right to some extent. Currently the close planets to one another are Mercury and Venus and they are around 32 million miles apart from one another. But the thing is Sardar Ji is confusing physical planets with spiritual realms. The spiritual reams dont share the same laws of nature as the physical planets such as Saturn or Pluto. The spiritual realms cannot be detected by the telescope of a scientist these realms are invisible to the naked eye. Also, Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji mentions how the realm Karam Khand is so close to Sach Khand that you can see Sach Khand from Karam Khand. The Janam Sakhis mention that before Sri Guru Nanak Dev JI reached Sri Sach Khand he visited a Khand were Bhagats like Bhagat Dhru resided. In this Khand the Bhagats could see Sri Sach Khand but they had no access. Only Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was the first to have access and he was the first to receive the gift of naam. These sakhis dont contradict Gurbani instead they glorify Gurbani.

Sardar Ji even claims that since Waaheguru Ji is everywhere how can we claim he resides in one place? Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji has compared Sri Sach Khand to the Sun. The rays of the sun permeate everywhere, however the Sun is at a distant location. Such is the mystery Sri Sach Khand , but only those with Naam Kamaee can understand. People with their scientific reasoning cannot grasp mystical truths. Though we commend Sardar Ji on his critical analysis in finding contradictions in some of the innovated sakhis still much of what he said cannot be accepted as true. For this reason SGPC should appoint learned theologians and historians to review history as long as they are Gurmukhs with lots of Naam Kamaaee and have experienced the truths within Gurbani. This way Sakhis can be filtered accordingly and sangat can immensely benefit.

Excellent article, should be eye opener to those who confine khalsa raj concept into their own banana republic tribal land, or their own tribal jatha/samparda attachment / neo tat khalsa ideology.

What we can do is we can strictly moderate this topic, where messages are approved before showing up in the board to ensure its only intellectual constructive debate.

With all do respect Mr. N30 singhji, you are putting kerosene on a fire. This article will cause nothing but flame wars and nindya. Not good for either the sikh or the hindu.

Thats not my intention, intention is to seek truth from analysis done from both sides. truth is somewhere in the middle. ..i do realize this may lead to flame wars and nindya..but i m not willing to compromise on open frank candid dialogue at the expense of regular fascism from both sides as i m pretty comfortable ignoring knee jerk stereotypical statements.

Awesome post guys, learning a lot .. please keep it coming..!!

http://sikhfreedom.com/eunuch.html

http://sikhfreedom.com/eunuch2.html

Both parties please discuss..!!

Keep it clean, please follow forum rules..!!

http://sikhfreedom.com/fascism.html

Both parties please discuss..!!

Keep it clean, please follow forum rules..!!

Here is must read commentary by harry mann on bara maha composition in gurbani. Very profound..

Barah maha maajh mahala 5, ghar 4

(12 months, in the emotive nuance (raag) of maajh (indicative of separation/longing), by the 5^th guru (mahala means large abode), ghar 4 (some believe this means ‘to the 4^th beat’ and others who take the Persian influence see It as being a derivation of ‘gah’ which means microtone….the jury is still out on this). Regardless, the title, author, scale and either beat/microtones are used to set the stage for engaging your mind by disengaging the ego……..<this last part being key>

History: It was a tradition in northern India that people would go and hear words from someone who they deemed ‘saintly’ at the beginning of the month. The sangat asked the guru for something that is akin to this tradition. The guru presented this bani (I see this as being a way of reorienting people to their higher self, which we can say is our ‘supersoul’ that is currently like a bird that is chained down).So Sikhs started reciting this monthly as a collective. In the olden days, the Sikhs in turn would recite this so the aspect of self sovereignty came about to.

My understanding of gurbani entails understanding the ‘mood’ of the shabad and earlier I had stated that majh is indicative of yearning/longing/separation. I will use that to further contextualize the shabad.

I have cut and paste the shabad as it is seen on srigranth.org. I shall provide my own commentary underneath

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥

Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

Harry: Ik oangkar satgur parsaad(one that is unmanifested, is continuously manifested in creation as an energy that is experienced Through the bliss of true consciousness):

ਕਿਰਤਿ ਕਰਮ ਕੇ ਵੀਛੁੜੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਮੇਲਹੁ ਰਾਮ ॥

किरति करम के वीछुड़े करि किरपा मेलहु राम ॥

Kiraṯ karam ke vīcẖẖuṛe kar kirpā melhu rām.

By the actions we have committed, we are separated from You. Please show Your Mercy, and unite us with Yourself, Lord.

Harry: The mind in speaking to itself much like a soliloquy and reaffirming that it is separated from its source (the ‘ik’) due to impressions which have been left which are not conduciveness to harmony and oneness. In essence one is feeling that they are the cause of their own incompleteness. So the mind is appealing to its counterpart, the complete self, the consciousness to implore it to connect to that (one source…the ‘ik’).

ਚਾਰਿ ਕੁੰਟ ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਭ੍ਰਮੇ ਥਕਿ ਆਏ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਸਾਮ ॥

चारि कुंट दह दिस भ्रमे थकि आए प्रभ की साम ॥

Cẖār kunt ḏah ḏis bẖarame thak ā▫e parabẖ kī sām.

We have grown weary of wandering to the four corners of the earth and in the ten directions. We have come to Your Sanctuary, God.

Harry: This section is indicative of doing ‘shubh karam’ (good deeds), In this case it would be tiraths (pilgrimages) and the emphasis is being laid on the fact that good deeds in themselves do not produce peace but rather a transformation of consciousness which would be an internal tirath or ‘shift’. So the mind has come ready to surrender to its own consciousness

ਧੇਨੁ ਦੁਧੈ ਤੇ ਬਾਹਰੀ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਕਾਮ ॥

धेनु दुधै ते बाहरी कितै न आवै काम ॥

Ḏẖen ḏuḏẖai ṯe bāhrī kiṯai na āvai kām.

Without milk, a cow serves no purpose.

Harry: The utility of a cow comes in its ability to produce milk. This is alluding to the mind not having utility if it is not engaging with that oneness.

ਜਲ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਾਖ ਕੁਮਲਾਵਤੀ ਉਪਜਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਦਾਮ ॥

जल बिनु साख कुमलावती उपजहि नाही दाम ॥

Jal bin sākẖ kumlāvaṯī upjahi nāhī ḏām.

Without water, the crop withers, and it will not bring a good price.

Harry: A crop that has endured a draught does not bring any profit. Similarly a mind that has not engaged in the bliss of engaging with that ‘ik’ is like an unprofitable crop in that it has not been utilized fruitfully.

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਹ ਨ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਸਾਜਨੈ ਕਤ ਪਾਈਐ ਬਿਸਰਾਮ ॥

हरि नाह न मिलीऐ साजनै कत पाईऐ बिसराम ॥

Har nāh na milī▫ai sājnai kaṯ pā▫ī▫ai bisrām.

If we do not meet the Lord, our Friend, how can we find our place of rest?

Harry: Similarly, if we do not engage with the manifest in creation, how will the mind ever be in poise/peace/state of perpetual stillness.

ਜਿਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕੰਤੁ ਨ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਈ ਭਠਿ ਨਗਰ ਸੇ ਗ੍ਰਾਮ ॥

जितु घरि हरि कंतु न प्रगटई भठि नगर से ग्राम ॥

Jiṯ gẖar har kanṯ na pargata▫ī bẖaṯẖ nagar se garām.

Those homes, those hearts, in which the Husband Lord is not manifest-those towns and villages are like burning furnaces.

Harry: In those homes (the mind-space) that that oneness (which takes on the form of a husband, where the true devotee has the virtue of a wife <this is actually a positive affirmation that in itself causes social change as it reverses the status of a female from being subservient to being the necessitated role required to obtain completeness). So, in that house where there is no husband (and recall the theme of longing), those towns and villages…meaning collective or human collective is like a burning furnace (indicative of strife and turmoil). This is evidenced in the number of killings endured during the Russian, Cambodian and Chinese revolutions where the manifestos were devoid of individual empowerment and growth.

ਸ੍ਰਬ ਸੀਗਾਰ ਤੰਬੋਲ ਰਸ ਸਣੁ ਦੇਹੀ ਸਭ ਖਾਮ ॥

स्रब सीगार त्मबोल रस सणु देही सभ खाम ॥

Sarab sīgār ṯambol ras saṇ ḏehī sabẖ kẖām.

All decorations, the chewing of betel to sweeten the breath, and the body itself, are all useless and vain.

Harry: As this is in raag maajh and the theme is one of longing and separation where the wife traditionally dolled herself for her husband and this is seen now when a wife/girlfriend etc looks to beautify herself for her better half; well all that useless. So in a spiritual sense, it is saying that all the techniques one may use to purify the mind are useless if they do not take one to the end goal of engaging with the ‘ik’

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਕੰਤ ਵਿਹੂਣੀਆ ਮੀਤ ਸਜਣ ਸਭਿ ਜਾਮ ॥

प्रभ सुआमी कंत विहूणीआ मीत सजण सभि जाम ॥

Parabẖ su▫āmī kanṯ vihūṇī▫ā mīṯ sajaṇ sabẖ jām.

Without God, our Husband, our Lord and Master, all friends and companions are like the Messenger of Death.

Harry: In reference to the line above, this is reiterating the same point.

ਨਾਨਕ ਕੀ ਬੇਨੰਤੀਆ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਦੀਜੈ ਨਾਮੁ ॥

नानक की बेनंतीआ करि किरपा दीजै नामु ॥

Nānak kī bananṯī▫ā kar kirpā ḏījai nām.

This is Nanak's prayer: "Please show Your Mercy, and bestow Your Name.

Harry: Nanak makes one plea ‘please provide me with your identifying quality’. Okay, so this requires some deeper analysis. Water can only blend with water. Similarly, the mind needs to be of the same quality as consciousness to be able to blend with it. So if consciousness is identified as one that is un manifest, manifesting itself as the eternal stillness that is consciousness experienced as bliss (ik oangkar satgur parsaad), then one is asking to have the experience which can put this identity to the experience through that name

ਹਰਿ ਮੇਲਹੁ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਨਿਹਚਲ ਧਾਮ ॥੧॥

हरि मेलहु सुआमी संगि प्रभ जिस का निहचल धाम ॥१॥

Har melhu su▫āmī sang parabẖ jis kā nihcẖal ḏẖām. ||1||

O my Lord and Master, please unite me with Yourself, O God, in the Eternal Mansion of Your Presence". ||1||

Harry: The mind is imploring ‘oangkar’ which is manifest within each of us as consciousness to engage the mind with it so that the mind can be in that mind-space of eternal stillness

The previous was a manglacharan, which is an introduction that sets the tone for the rest of the verses.

Now we go into the month of cheyt and how one’s mind should engage with the ‘ik’ (which is conciousness)

ਚੇਤਿ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਅਰਾਧੀਐ ਹੋਵੈ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਘਣਾ ॥

चेति गोविंदु अराधीऐ होवै अनंदु घणा ॥

Cẖeṯ govinḏ arāḏẖī▫ai hovai anand gẖaṇā.

In the month of Chayt, by meditating on the Lord of the Universe, a deep and profound joy arises.

Harry: In the month of cheyt, engage the mind by connecting to that ‘ik’ which is manifest in every aspect of creation (go-all of creation, vind/bind-that element that is manifest). By doing this, one will feel an inner peace well up in the mind making it profitable (as per the manglacharan) and it brings one closer to that entity it feels separated from. The mind also is in rest because it is not engaged in anything except the bliss of stillness.

ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਰਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਭਣਾ ॥

संत जना मिलि पाईऐ रसना नामु भणा ॥

Sanṯ janā mil pā▫ī▫ai rasnā nām bẖaṇā.

Meeting with the humble Saints, the Lord is found, as we chant His Name with our tongues.

Harry: by meeting and engaging our minds with those who have stillness in their mind, we can know and engage with that ‘ik’ (as a still mind is a great sounding board for a still mind) and one can give voice to that experience of knowing what the identifying quality is of that ‘ik’

ਜਿਨਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਣਾ ਆਏ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਗਣਾ ॥

जिनि पाइआ प्रभु आपणा आए तिसहि गणा ॥

Jin pā▫i▫ā parabẖ āpṇā ā▫e ṯisėh gaṇā.

Those who have found God-blessed is their coming into this world.

Harry: In reference to the cow that is there to provide milk, this is referring to the mind which has realized that oneness is ‘their’s meaning that it is manifest within them as conciousness and their coming to this world is fruitful as they’ve put their mind to good use.

ਇਕੁ ਖਿਨੁ ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਜੀਵਣਾ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਜਣਾ ॥

इकु खिनु तिसु बिनु जीवणा बिरथा जनमु जणा ॥

Ik kẖin ṯis bin jīvṇā birthā janam jaṇā.

Those who live without Him, for even an instant-their lives are rendered useless.

Harry: In contradistinction to the line above, those who disengage their mind from that consciousness (‘ik’) for a brief second is not yielding any profit and they are losing and have diminished their relative utility

ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਪੂਰਿਆ ਰਵਿਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਣਾ ॥

जलि थलि महीअलि पूरिआ रविआ विचि वणा ॥

Jal thal mahī▫al pūri▫ā ravi▫ā vicẖ vaṇā.

The Lord is totally pervading the water, the land, and all space. He is contained in the forests as well.

Harry: That conciousness is ‘govind’ as stated above as it is permeating the water, land and all space…..

ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਕਿਤੜਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਗਣਾ ॥

सो प्रभु चिति न आवई कितड़ा दुखु गणा ॥

So parabẖ cẖiṯ na āvī kiṯ▫ṛā ḏukẖ gaṇā.

Those who do not remember God-how much pain must they suffer!

Harry: Relative to the size (being a qualitative statement of size) of that ‘ik’, the mind loses out if it does not ‘re-engage’ with that conciousness as it is technically missing out.

ਜਿਨੀ ਰਾਵਿਆ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਤਿੰਨਾ ਭਾਗੁ ਮਣਾ ॥

जिनी राविआ सो प्रभू तिंना भागु मणा ॥

Jinī rāvi▫ā so parabẖū ṯinnā bẖāg maṇā.

Those who dwell upon their God have great good fortune.

Harry: The bliss and experience of this oneness or completeness within the mind is so rich and fulfilling that engaging with it is being very fortunate or leaves an impression that is positive (this is an answer to the opening line).

ਹਰਿ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੰਉ ਮਨੁ ਲੋਚਦਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਪਿਆਸ ਮਨਾ ॥

हरि दरसन कंउ मनु लोचदा नानक पिआस मना ॥

Har ḏarsan kaʼn▫u man locẖḏā Nānak pi▫ās manā.

My mind yearns for the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan. O Nanak, my mind is so thirsty!

Harry: as an emotive state of anguish which is contextualized by raag maajh, the mind is pining to ‘see’ and engage with that one manifest (ik).

ਚੇਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਤਿਸ ਕੈ ਪਾਇ ਲਗਾ ॥੨॥

चेति मिलाए सो प्रभू तिस कै पाइ लगा ॥२॥

Cẖeṯ milā▫e so parabẖū ṯis kai pā▫e lagā. ||2||

I touch the feet of one who unites me with God in the month of Chayt. ||2||

Harry: In the month of cheyt, the mind says that it will touch the feet, which is indicative of honoring the path of that person who helps the mind to unite with its source (the ‘ik’)

I recently picked up in the experience of meditation that instead of seeker trying to consume in naam/gyan of naam- mool mantra/gurmantar or any other mantra, let the naam CONSUME YOU..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What does gyani sher singh views on the origins of asthbunga ? ...I had a chance to talk to him in details many things...i took him to my house as we invited him for langar he does not down play anything.... he should be good source to validate stuff as he does not downplay anything but also gives gurmat tat of everything.!!

On facebook, people are celebrating his death..absolutely disgusting. Dya, sarbat da bhalla, sam dristhi, nirbhauo nirvair nature of sikh and basis of sikhi seems to be lost in new sikh world order...may be these people with sub human mindset who celebrate death of another being ( who does not conform to their ideology) needs to learn how to be human first then sikh.

Disgusting words for a great man. It has been less than 24-hours since his death and khalibans showing their colors.

RIP One of the greatest sons of Punjab

I am with you on this one, this is ridiculous..!!

RIP Khuswant Singh Ji.

There are many experiences which you can have during this path, however like Neo stated these do not reflect the end goal which can only be achieved through the grace of Maharaj, when he casts his glance upon you, everything will make sense.

Anhad shabad is indeed a magical and profound experience, wonderous and mind blowing, you can spend years at this stage, however the path to Maharaj is infinite and beant, without going further and leaving your current milestone you wont ever know whats next, your mind cannot even contemplate how great his leela is and what he will show you to divert you from the path to his door. Nothing should be held onto, nothing should be even desired, that is when everything is shown to you.

Things have been spoken of which some people will never experience, you cant even imagine what the things that havent been spoken of are like. Dont get bogged down into wanting a particular experience, you will never have it that way.

Make the correct effort with an innocent, childlike, unknowing sincerity and love in your heart, thats all that is required. The mysteries of the creator of the universes cannot be understood overnight, this is a lifelong journey - enjoy the scenery but keep moving with the hukam.

Awesome post bro.

Can someone kindly explain the 3 different margs and how each approach differs?

Good question bro, according to my understanding, there are no really abstract organized form of three different margs (if we do that then we make divine journey rigid its not rigid nor its static its beautiful spontenous flow) and beside in sikhi is blended beautifully in sikhi however for understanding purpose we can break it down to three different margs...also at the end its whatever your drawn to- for eg- i tried shabad surat for 6 months, didn't work for me as i was more drawn and keeping getting drawn towards self enquiry/atam vichar/dhian-gian aspect..listen to inner voice- guidance- guru guides you through via inner voice/wisdom.

Anyway to keep in short:

Bhagti marg- where seeker uses bhagti aspects like kirtan, seva and surrender himself/herself-ego fully to guru then guru itself blesses seeker and join and merge seeker with him. I.e - bhai sham singh ji bhramgyani realized bhram via just kirtan, baba isher singh nanaksarwale got bhramgyan by fully surrending to his murshid- baba nand singh maharaj and by doing his seva.

Shabad surat marg- where seeker surti goes through many reference point stages- anhad shabad/dasam dwara and ultimately egoic perception/duality dies in shabad and let shabad gyan- awareness sponteneously take care of the rest- merge seeker in shabad gyan...shabad is pointer which point towards its gyan/mool roop which is vahiguroo- ultimate reality.

Dhian/ Gyan marg/aspect- where seeker starts a quest to know- Who am i with full honesty (not this not that going through layers of preconditioning and false identification of body and mind) and concentrate on gyan-awareness/ shabad gyan, for eg- dhian on mool mantra intial stages then seeking disappears along perception, perceptor , whats being perceived only thing remains is recongization and perception of ego disappears only thing remains is spontenous ultimate reality which is never static always moving but stillness in movement- full gyan saroop of Ikongkar:

Ik0ngkar supreme reality is waiting for us to expereince itself in our own consciouness before we by pass ikongkar..!!

Whats common for seeker in all three margs, as maha singh said innocent children like devotion, bairaag, honesty, surrender of egoic perception/thoughts etc.

das veer ji,

If you read ishvar amalok lal there are number of paths/quest reiterated which is accepted in gurmat- bhagti marg-yog, shabad surat marg, gyan-dhian marg. Basically in gurmat, they are all accepted/valid and they are not seperated thats beauty of it, they are all blended with each other as beautifully as sri guru arjan dev ji mahavak shalok- sargu nirgun nirankar sun smadhi aap apan kiya nanaka ape fer jaap.

One may see the above- bhagti incorporated in shabad surat, gyan dhian marg as stages or one may see them as cross linked paths..either way there are no set rules as such as one have to go through shabad surat marg - panj shabad or dasam dwara in order to get to destination. There are many mahapursh who have just done- dhian of shabad and get drawn to shabad dhian and gyan and reached the destination via dhian and gyan path..In dhian and gyan path of self enquiry- Man tu jot saroop hai apna mool painchain.one does not have go through reference points like panj shabad - om resosance/ong resosance or any other mantra resosance/dasam dwara..its not required. However, if seeker is automatically/naturally (natural is key word not enforced or struggle)..naturally feels drawn towards shabad surat, thats the path for them, main idea to make mind still and quiescent so absolute reality can reflect it and one realizes their mool saroop.

Where gurbani talking about panj shabad, dasam dwara its talks about shabad surat marg or an aspect of gurmat and not saying this is only way to get to bhram as updesh of gurbani is not confined to only one aspect but rather gurmat/gurbani updesh addresses all aspects of gurmat and guides seeker according to spiritual evolution of seeker/whatever seeker is drawn to- bhagti, shabad surat marg, gyan dhian marg.

NEO veer ji, i don't believe they are so insignificant and such a small feat as you may be making out. Gurbani mentions the anhads quite alot. I wouldn't be so quick to down play them.

Thanks sat veerji..Sorry I don't mean to down play it but hoping to show reality as if caution is not paid by seekers like us (if one does not let or openly receptive towards spontaneous flow of panj shabad/ sehaj smadhi take over rest- point seeker towards transcendence) these things can be which are supposed to aids/'reference points can be easily confused with destination-comfort zone of seeker thats where true biraaga of seeker/mithiya dristhi comes in of seeker where nothing else matters accepting reality our true self- absolute reality. Bairaag and journey of shabad surat should be done hand in hand so that seeker is always grounded and keeping moving in longing for absolute reality.

According to my understanding, panj shabads are just pointers/reference points which are meant to be used as aids and meant to naturally point seeker/transcendent seeker towards ultimate reality given the fact egoistic preconditioned, idiolized self does not come in a way and does not end up wrapping his/her head around it and making that into another road block or hindrance.

Sant maharaj in atamik vichar tape clearly mentioned- dasam dvar, anhad shabad are just reference points/pointers not the final destination.

In fact so much so, in ishvar amalok lal - in gyan marg/jnana-self enquiry quest path these things are not required or mentioned .... one does not have to go through path of anhad shabad/ dasam dwara.

There are bhramgyani karaks (who are also jevan mukht) and there are bhramgyani who has become jevan mukht in their current life time, in terms of their inner core avastha - they are god consciousness/realized their real self- atam saroop not any difference but difference lies

a) bhramgyani karaks does not need to do anything- effort , they are born jevan mukhts, they are always in sehaj samadhi (effortless/spontenous smadhi even though from outside they show they are making effort) where as bhramgyani jevan mukht mahapursh-actually make efforts deep inside and eventually get to bhramgyan stage later on in their life time.

b..) bhramgyani karak mahapursh are gifted all the required powers to complete task they are given whereas bhramgyani may or may not be naturally attuned to powers.

I recently came across with her life and teaching, amazing indeed.

Here is the divine couplet dedicated to her by snatam kaur:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVvW8iRtYnQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq32ant8YOo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_y8DCwHVP8

Here is brillant katha of sukhmani sahib and below 21st astpadi of sukhmani sahib - 2 hrs long by anandmurti guruma:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQwuaKCFruI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2iwfg0G8RE

Sant ajit singh hansali wale, sant mohan singh bhindranwale, sant teja singh ji rara sahib, sant manjit singh harkhowal, sant jagjit singh harkhowal, sant darshan singh ji dhakki wale, swami parmanand ji, sri anandmurti guruma, sadhguru jaggi, adhyashanti, mooji and many more we don't know about.

For best discourses online- youtube

For best english discourses- adhyashanti, mooji

For best punjabi discourses- sant jagjit singh harkhowal,sant manjit singh harkhowale, sant darshan singh ji dhakki wale.

For best hindi discourses- swami parmanand ji, anandmurti guruma

Here is pdf document of whole japji sahib translation if one wants to download it:

Japji Sahib Katha by Gyani Thakur Singh Translated.pdf

Lol @ reboot. yea that might be needed...looks like lot of communities comes to england with sense of entitlement eh?