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SAadmin

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  1. Going by the logic of the 'Hindu' Sher, why do the his people refer to themselves as Hindus, show us where the word Hindu is mentioned in the Vedas, Upanishads or even Bhagavad Gita?

    I already asked him this question, he had no answer...hindu is demographic name have no religious spiritual connotations let alone organized religion or religion in abstract form.

  2. Haan ji, here is description of five koshas, also see - atamgian katha between bhai dya singh ji and sangat in soraj parkash granth:

    the five kos'as

    Vedanta analyses the non-Self into five kos'as, or sheaths, namely, the gross physical sheath (annamaya-kos'a), the sheath of prana or the vital force (prana-mayakos'a), the sheath of the mind (manomayakos'a), the sheath of the buddhi or intelligence (vijnanamaya-kos'a), and the sheath of bliss (anandamayakos'a). They are called sheaths because, like sheaths, they conceal Atman. They are figuratively described as one inside the other, the physical sheath being the outermost and the sheath of bliss the innermost. The real meaning is that one sheath is finer than another. As a finer entity permeates a grosser one, so the finer sheath permeates the grosser sheath. Thus, when it is said that the sheath of the vital force is inside the gross physical sheath, it really means that the former is finer than the latter and therefore permeates it. Atman is the finest substance. It is detached from the sheaths and permeates them all. The effulgence of Atman shines through all the sheaths, though in varying degrees according to their density. Thus, the sheath of intelligence manifests more of the luminosity of Atman than the sheath of the mind. Through ignorance a man identifies Atman with one or more of the kos'as, or sheaths. As this ignorance is stubborn, persistent, and hard to overcome, Vedantic philosophers take considerable pains to describe their illusory nature and exhort the aspirants to negate them. Only when that is done, that is to say, when one cultivates total detachment toward them through discrimination, is the true nature of Atman revealed.

    The annamayakos'a, or physical body. This sheath, which constitutes the gross physical body, is produced by the combination of the gross elements and consists of flesh, bones, blood, and other ingredients. Dependent upon food for its existence, it lives as long as it can assimilate food. It is not seen prior to birth or after death; its existence is transitory and its virtues are ephemeral. It is changeable by nature. Therefore the body cannot be the Self. The ignorant identify themselves with the body; the book-learned, with the combination of the body, the mind, and the Self; while the calm man of discrimination regards the Self as distinct from body, mind, and ego. As long as a man does not give up this mistaken identification with the body, he cannot experience the bliss of Freedom, be he ever so erudite in philosophy or science. The body can be a help to the soul if it is regarded as an instrument, just as a house is a help to its indweller, or a horse to its rider.

    The prdnamayakos'a, or sheath of prana, the vital force. This sheath is finer than the gross physical sheath and impels the latter to action. A modification of the vital force, it consists of the five pranas, enters the body after conception, leaves it at the hour of death, and produces the feelings of hunger and thirst. An insentient and limited object, the sheath of prana cannot be Atman, the omnipresent and all-seeing Witness.

    The manomayakos'a, or sheath of the mind. This is finer than the sheath of prana. The Self identified with the mind feels the diversity of " I " and " you," and also experiences the differences of names and forms in the outer world. The seed-bed of desires, good and bad, the mind impels the senses to activity for their fulfilment. The phenomenal world has no existence outside the mind, which is a product of ignorance. The mind agitated by desires becomes aware of sense-objects, gross and fine, enjoys them, and also becomes attached to them. The mind alone is responsible for the illusory differences of caste and social position, as also of the notions of action, means, and end. Stained by passion, greed, and lust, it creates bondage, and freed of them, it shows the way to Liberation and Blessedness. The purification of the mind, through the practice of discrimination and dispassion, is the goal of spiritual discipline. In the opinion of Vedantic seers, the mental sheath cannot be Atman, because it is endowed with a beginning and an end, is subject to change, and is characterized by pain and pleasure. It belongs to the category of the object. The vijndnamayakos'a, or, buddhi, the sheath of intelligence. Buddhi, the determinative faculty, is, like the mind, a function of the inner organ and therefore a product of Prakriti, or matter. Though insentient by nature, it appears intelligent and conscious because it reflects Chit, or Pure Intelligence. This reflection of Pure Consciousness in buddhi is called the jiva, or individualized soul, whose chief characteristic is I-consciousness. Subject to the law of karma, it assumes different bodies, determined by the desires of previous births, and performs good and evil actions. Atman, identifying Itself with the sheath of intelligence, experiences misery and happiness in the waking and dream states and their absence in dreamless sleep. It is through ignorance that the upadhi of jivahood is superimposed on Atman, the Pure Self; and that is why Atman appears to be a doer or enjoyer in the relative world.

    It may be contended that the superimposition on account of which the Supreme Self appears as the jiva, through delusion or otherwise, is without beginning, and hence cannot have an end. Therefore the individuality of the soul, also, must have no end. It must go on forever. How, then, can there be Liberation for the soul? In answer the Vedantic philosopher says that the jivahood, or individualization, of Atman is not real, but is conjured up by ignorance. The unattached, formless, and actionless Atman cannot be related to the objective world except through delusion. Since the very notion of jivahood is due to delusion, it ceases to exist when the delusion is destroyed by the true Knowledge of the Self. Because of ignorance a rope appears to be a snake; and it continues to be perceived as such so long as the ignorance lasts. But when the true nature of the rope is seen, the idea of the snake disappears. Avidya, or nescience, and its effects, such as time, space, and causality, are beginningless for those who are subject to it. But when ignorance is destroyed by Right Knowledge, all such notions as the jivahood of Atman and Its birth and death cease to exist, just as the dream ego functioning in sleep vanishes when the dreamer awakes. Atman, the only existent Reality, cannot have any connection with the buddhi and thus become a jiva, for the buddhi does not exist from the standpoint of Atman. There cannot be any real conection between Atman and the sheath of the buddhi, just as there cannot be any point of contact between the desert and the water seen in a mirage. The false superimposition which accounts for the individuality of the jiva can be directly destroyed only through the Knowledge of Brahman and not by any other means such as ritualistic worship, study of scripture, •or philanthropic activities. This unitive (intuitive?) Knowledge— attained through discrimination between the Real and the unreal and relinquishment of the unreal—enables the bound soul to attain Liberation.

    The anandamayakos'a, or sheath of bliss. Finer than the sheath of intelligence is the subtle sheath of bliss. This bliss, however, must not be conjused with the Supreme? Bliss of Brahman. A modification of nescience, or Prakriti, it manifests itself by catching a reflection of the ever blissful Atman. The chief features of this sheath are pleasure and rest—the pleasure that is experienced when one comes in contact with an agreeable object. The righteous man feels it in a small measure and without the least effort at the time of the fruition of his virtuous deeds. But the fullest manifestation of the sheath of bliss is experienced in deep sleep, when one remains totally unconscious of suffering of any kind. After waking from deep sleep a man remarks that he has slept happily. A partial manifestation is known in the waking state when the senses come in contact with pleasant objects, or in the dream state due to pleasant memory-impressions. The sheath of bliss, though close to Atman, cannot be Atman Itself, as it is a product of ignorance; which fact can be known from the experience of unconsciousness in dreamless sleep. Further, this sheath, like the other sheaths, is endowed with changing attributes. But Atman is omnipresent and self-existent.

    The five sheaths are all modifications of Prakriti, or primordial matter. They do not possess absolute reality. Whatever reality they are perceived to possess is due to Atman's being their Substratum. It must also be remembered that the sheaths are not real coverings of the infinite Atman. They only appear to be so when the true Knowledge of the Self is forgotten. The Light of Atman shines in varying measure through the different sheaths according to their composition. The true glory of Atman, unobstructed by any sheath, is fully realized by the aspirant when, through discrimination and detachment, self-control and meditation, he no longer identifies himself with the sheaths or with any other modification of maya, such as the sense-organs, the mind, the buddhi, or the ego, but is completely absorbed in the Self. Untouched by the five sheaths, Witness of the three states, Atman is the unchanging and unsullied Reality, knowledge of which enables one to break the bondage of the relative world and attain Supreme Blessedness.

    It may be contended that, after the negation of the five sheaths and the mind and ego as unreal, one finds nothing but a void, the utter absence of everything. What entity then remains with which the illumined soul may realize its identity? In answer it is said by the Vedantist that only after such negation can a man realize Atman, which is devoid of attributes, is of the nature of Pure Consciousness, and is the Witness of the various modifications of Prakriti seen in the waking and the dream state, such as the mind, the body, and the senses, and also of their absence in profound sleep or in samadhi. It may be called contentless Consciousness in which both subject and object merge and disappear. It cannot be the void, for one emerging from the experience of Self-Knowledge shows a richer and enhanced personality. Atman, or Brahman, is, according to Vedanta, the real essence of man. After the realization of this all-pervading Consciousness, a man discovers his true Self, just as, after entering the ocean, a river, discarding name and form, finds its real source and ultimate goal.

    When the five sheaths are negated, the body, the mind, the buddhi, and the other modifications of ignorance, and the different reflections of the Self in them, are also negated. And when all these illusory objects disappear, there shines the real Atman, eternal, omnipresent, and all-powerful, realizing which within himself a man becomes free from sin, fear, grief, taint, and death and becomes the embodiment of Bliss.

  3. Lyrics below:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atma_Shatakam

    mano buddhi ahankara chittani naaham
    na cha shrotravjihve na cha ghraana netre
    na cha vyoma bhumir na tejo na vaayuhu
    chidananda rupah shivo’ham shivo’ham
    1) I am not mind, nor intellect, nor ego, nor the reflections of inner self (chitta). I am not the five senses. I am beyond that. I am not the ether, nor the earth, nor the fire, nor the wind (the five elements). I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, the auspicious (Shivam), love and pure consciousness.
    na cha prana sangyo na vai pancha vayuhu
    na va sapta dhatur na va pancha koshah
    na vak pani-padam na chopastha payu
    chidananda rupah shivo’ham shivo’ham
    2) Neither can I be termed as energy (prana), nor five types of breath (vayus), nor the seven material essences, nor the five coverings (pancha-kosha). Neither am I the five instruments of elimination, procreation, motion, grasping, or speaking. I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, the auspicious (Shivam), love and pure consciousness.
    na me dvesha ragau na me lobha mohau
    na me vai mado naiva matsarya bhavaha
    na dharmo na chartho na kamo na mokshaha
    chidananda rupah shivo’ham shivo’ham
    3) I have no hatred or dislike, nor affiliation or liking, nor greed, nor delusion, nor pride or haughtiness, nor feelings of envy or jealousy. I have no duty (dharma), nor any money, nor any desire (kama), nor even liberation (moksha). I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, the auspicious (Shivam), love and pure consciousness.
    na punyam na papam na saukhyam na duhkham
    na mantro na tirtham na veda na yajnah
    aham bhojanam naiva bhojyam na bhokta
    chidananda rupah shivo’ham shivo’ham
    4) I have neither merit (virtue), nor demerit (vice). I do not commit sins or good deeds, nor have happiness or sorrow, pain or pleasure. I do not need mantras, holy places, scriptures (Vedas), rituals or sacrifices (yagnas). I am none of the triad of the observer or one who experiences, the process of observing or experiencing, or any object being observed or experienced. I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, the auspicious (Shivam), love and pure consciousness.
    na me mrtyu shanka na mejati bhedaha
    pita naiva me naiva mataa na janmaha
    na bandhur na mitram gurur naiva shishyaha
    chidananda rupah shivo’ham shivo’ham

    5) I do not have fear of death, as I do not have death. I have no separation from my true self, no doubt about my existence, nor have I discrimination on the basis of birth. I have no father or mother, nor did I have a birth. I am not the relative, nor the friend, nor the guru, nor the disciple. I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, the auspicious (Shivam), love and pure consciousness.

    aham nirvikalpo nirakara rupo
    vibhut vatcha sarvatra sarvendriyanam
    na cha sangatham naiva muktir na meyaha
    chidananda rupah shivo’ham shivo’ham

    6) I am all pervasive. I am without any attributes, and without any form. I have neither attachment to the world, nor to liberation (mukti). I have no wishes for anything because I am everything, everywhere, every time, always in equilibrium. I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, the auspicious (Shivam), love and pure consciousness.

  4. My friend you know as well as me there are three Granths. The Sarbloh Granth extensively defines the Khalsa in Guru Ji's own eyes. Now how would Gandhi know that???? A cursory or even a dedicated scanning of descriptions and histories of the Khalsa does not provide any specific perceptions into it's psyche and tenets. So how can the latter provide any theological justification? Now of course Sher can argue whatever merits and de-merits he wants, but the truth remains Gandhi was no expert on the Khalsa ethos and nor did he prove to be an effective leader in the long run. Each human had flaws, but those like Gandhi who veil their flaws with religious veils are nothing more than hypocrites; and hypocrisy is the worst flaw of all.

    Totally agree.

  5. That's just the thing. The Indians of the previous Yugs were Dharmi people who were Kesadharis. But today's Kalyugi Hindus have taken on Kalyugi traits by cutting their Kesh, abandoning Kshatriya Dharm and Bhagti Marg. But Khalsa has maintained all of these qualities. Khalsa is the rightful inheritor of the legacy of those ancient people of India, not today's Kalyugi Hindus.

    I Can't say all hindus as there are many various orders and many hindu sadhus have kept long hair..however, those who claim they are upasakhs of kshatariya dharam yet have shaved heads and yet have audacity to point finger at those who kept ancient traditions. Unbelievable.. even hanuman ji had a kachera , keshadhari and was shastardhari.

  6. "I read your Granth Sahib. But I do not do so to please you. Nor shall I seek your permission to do so. But the Guru has not said anywhere that you must grow your beards, carry kirpans (swords) and so on"

    He was spot on! Show me one verse in SGGS which asks Sikhs to grow hair or even justifies such external features. Panj kakkars is something which Tat Khalsas have forced on ALL Sikhs. Forget what Gandhi has said, SGGS (and Dasam Granth) does not have the word KHALSA (as in Sikh Khalsa) in it. Having said that I am not saying Khalsa has no position in Sikhism. They were the warriors Guru sahib created to resist the Muslim atrocities.

    Sri dasam guru granth its fairly clear to grow hair, and have 5 ks.

    I always find it ironic you find example of shastardhari snatan dharmis again pretty much all keshadharis and shastardharis all across bhagvad gita- mahabharta and ramayana acceptable, yet get your knickers in a twist when khalsa carries 5 ks to uphold dharma, propagate and defend dharma not just its own but defend overall dharma and weak in general.

    Didn't all the previous avtars- ram chandar ji, ram krishnan ji and hanuman, arjuna and whole sena grow kesh and were shastardhari.

    Show me ahinsa (jain pacificsm) is authentic part of sanatan dharma- ramayana/mahabharat? Hell they are even puratan buddhist orders who are keshadharis/ shastardharis and you seem to bias and issue towards khalsa- sant-sipahi which is meant to carefully strike a balance between sant and sipahi.

    Khalsa is kaum of sant-sipahi which means sipahi nature should naturally spontaneously arise from sant (peace, compassion, contenment, advait-one non dual vision for whole humanity) after bhramgyan not enforced or induced

    Bir ras of Sipahi of Khalsa: Warrior spirit of self defense- stopping an individual to do further damage, fight against oppression but more importantly- bir ras is not on its own, its naturally born, nurtured and controlled by sant aspect of one's life- dya (compassion), sat(truthful), sabar( patience), santokh(contentment), sam/advait dristhi (non dual one vision impartial perception of humanity).

    Found a right word/description for bir ras its spontaneous natural force coming out naturally which does not have ego/pride,anger, revenge, vegenance, jealously vices/perception attached to it, its totally nirlaip from maya... its not only conceptual those who are serious into meditation knows and can relate to this spontaneous natural force as they have experienced it.

    For eg- its as natural as one is walking/running, when one walks legs move naturally its spontenous thing, there are *NO* anger behind it or having any kind good or bad attributes behind it, its just action,reaction ...just is .!!

    hopefully that helps..

  7. Das great explanation but as a caution- whatever you said should be taken for understanding purposes for aid purposes, should not be taken as abstract rigid rules, no one can claim they got formula/diagram/yantra/tantra/mantra rules/conceptual diagram/rule book/step by step process which guarantees bhramgian to all (never meant to have it like that) as everyone is at different stage and gets naturally drawn intuitively to different aspects/reference point of meditation based on their own state all part of spiritual development process which is meant to help one way or another:

    Just to add what you said above:

    Normally whatever you (not mind but inner voice/intuitive guidance-surti within every human- jehri surat tahi rahe jai ||) drawn too, thats your path. Satguru is one (Ikongkar) all along helps seeker(sitting at various different states) in every way- sometimes satguru draw seeker in animates form/ sargun form to guide seeker via various sargun ways to eventually go introvert, sometimes satguru draw seeker via sehaj patt gurbani/ shabad dhuni and sometimes satguru draw seeker in its own most profound roop -gian of shabad to drawn seeker in all to help seeker in spriitual development process. All it requires is one being receptive, whatever you drawn too most whatever resonates with seeker most, go take that path as gurmat includes all, blends bhagti, shabad surat, shakti advait gian beautifully..!!

  8. If a math sum cannot be solved without the formula, then how come it is possible to achieve God with formula??

    Air planes fly in air, ships float in water just because of formula. HE cannot be attained through sheer force but he could be attained through: Veerag, Bhagti, and Gyan.

    Gyan: Basically this is the only requirement for Salvation. But Gyan comes through Naam Simran with full Attention (Dhayan). Simran is always of GurMantar and GurMantar is given by ONLY Guru. One has to follow a technique which is specified by Brahmgyani. There is NO question of attaining Waheguru without following a technique told by Brahmgyani. And Brahmgyani gives Naam only when the student has Prem and Veerag and ready to do Bhagti. So, Prem and Veerag is required but saying technique is not required is wrong.

    Veerag: It is one of the 4 qualities required for salvation which happens to be: Vivek, Veerag, Shat Sampatti (Sama, Dama, Upram, Titiksha, Shraddha, Samadhana).

    Bhagti: It is the rememberance of Waheguru. It is of 9 types: Sarvan, Kirtan, Simran, Bandhan, Ardas, Acharan, Dasabhav, Shakha/Shakhi Bhav, Atamnavedan/Brahmgyan.

    bro You forgot shabad surat marg- reference point stages such as swas gras, swas swas, trikurti, agya chakra- shabad dhuni etc

  9. A true gursikh WILL NOT use any weaponary unless there life is being threatened as history tells us a try gursikh will defend the righteousness of the whole of humanity.

    And bro, how do you assume - non sikhs guest/foreigners know that who come to gurdwara? and besides automatic merit (label as gursikh) should not be given to anyone who has dhara and bana.

    Rehit pyari mujkho sikh pyare nahi (Sri guru gobind singh ji)

  10. Aksantali, your response to sher should be biography of person you have in avatar so you can educate others, some of silly sikhs thinks they are soo entitled and so self absorbed, that they expect outsider and everyone to know about them.

    Our incompotent gurdwara's leaders does the same, they have all these singhs pictures with machine guns, bloody pictures at langar hall with no description whatsoever, off course western media and foreigners will be offended and would be taken out of context, and they whine about bad press because of their own incompetence, and negligence. Most of current sikh inter issues are self inflicted without any influence from outside.

    This occured to me, about 5 years ago, i was told with other singhs to give 30 gorreh's tour to gurdwara in brampton, here we are at langar hall, i m trying to explain concept of langar- guru amar das ji making langar, all they can see all around langar hall is picture of singhs with ak47 with no description, to made me look stupid, whole discussion of langar went irrelevant as they were shaking their head, nervous and frightneded, these poor 30 gorrehs were mix of senior people and from other interfaith group have no idea, i had to downplay this whole picture fiasco kind of sway them into sikh library while our pot belly leaders have cha with their own lot and give them weird looks..!!

    Unbelievable..!!

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