SAadmin

I understand what he is saying and understand he is breaking it down for understanding purposes from perspective/aspect- shabad dhun/naad aspect of vahiguru its fine break down.

i don't agree with him calling naam nirgun without more deeper explanation as without various interepertations of naam it would confine nirgun into naam..also as its simply as it can confuse lot of people because naam has various interpretations depending on spiritual aspirant state.. most of people will take naam as dhun -sound aspect of naam as nirgun which is in again clash course with sidhant of mool mantar, japji sahib, sukhmani sahib.

Gurbani speaks to multitude aspects of nirankar so it provides multiple existence gurbani tukhs how whole creation came. gurbani talks about both creation came from both shabad dhun/gian and khanda/shakti/gian.

Anyway in absolute truth there is only non dual state -Ikongkar (its all one non duality reality) simply no break down - breaks down there to help people transcendent thats how i take it not as a absolute reality.

This map may help better provide perspective

Anhad bani is pointer pointing towards the actual source nirgun not nirgun itself because if thats a case it in clash course with sidhant of nirgun/nirankar cannot be defined as mentioned in mool mantar, japji sahib, sukhmani sahib jaap sahib, akaal ustat

The way i experienced awareness was different. I initially went through de-construction process until its all silence-awakeness and let awakeness come in center stage (mind-manipulation loves to take center stage all the time), rather than letting trying do awareness or get to awareness..i just be in state of being non dual awareness which is already there in all of us it automatically comes in -operates through naturally (I have no say where it takes)..it will only operate given there is no mental noise its silence and emptiness.. i , i just let natural awareness which is in everyone take center the stage go through spontaneous process , its bit different as its gurmat gyan path leading to same source, its effortless effort process where only effort is to be quite and then let built in enlightened awareness-jot (also mentioned in gurbani as unman as means to meet our jot as unman will naturally merge back in its source) which is in all of us, and everyone take center stage sponteounsly let go where its trying to go.

The way i understood naad i thought any kind of sound is part of pavan, naad is made out of pavan. Pavan is part of subtle maya. Off course we don't beleive in christian concept of maya belong to devil etc..source of maya is nirankar itself naad automatically leads to actual source of naad which is shabad gian- nirankar- vaho vaho bani nirankar hai ||

May be Maya is unfortunate term filled with negative connotations let's call its another name sargun. Naad is still part of subtle sargun.

You are the right about the process there is no issue there i have maintained there are different aspects of nirankar- naad, nirgun gyan, are all valid leading to same destination. I am speaking from nirgun gyan point of view- what also right and truth- everyone is already experiencing elevated awareness they don't know it or perceive it that way due to maya or rather you can say elevated awareness already experiencing itself through everyone, each and every moment which is reality, we have to recognize it by letting it take the center stage or center being which appears to be hijacked by mind or ego at the moment.

Essence of enlightenment or enlightened awareness already there in all of us is just as natural as one spontaneous breathing we don't have to try so hard to get to it. Aboslute truth(unman avastha/turiya avastha) its there in all of us already operating through us in all of us, its already there from its point of view, already it requires just our fearless recognition each and every moment...we have a choice either we can identify with absolute truth already there in each of every moment or identify with mind. Most of us identify with mind all the time thats why this constant rememberance (Naam simran without any technalities) so important for all of us.

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ गउड़ी महला ५ ॥ Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 5. Gauree, Fifth Mehl:
ਅਗਮ ਰੂਪ ਕਾ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਥਾਨਾ ॥ अगम रूप का मन महि थाना ॥ Agam rūp kā man mėh thānā.
The Lord of Unfathomable Form has His Place in the mind.

ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਕਿਨੈ ਵਿਰਲੈ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੧॥ गुर प्रसादि किनै विरलै जाना ॥१॥ Gur parsāḏ kinai virlai jānā. ||1||

By Guru's Grace, a rare few come to understand this. ||1||


Inquire where/what is that agam roop, this is your real self..!!!!!!!!!!!!

What else is new? Our people fighting among themselves..another pathetic event.

Our people fighting with their own, you know why? Because these self proclaimed tough bunch from our community know they can get away with it-there is no fear they will feel as they know there are no consequences in life when it comes to dealing with their own- so they prey on weak and in this case (unfortunate nerdy out of shape singh) fight with their own, suppress them, fear monger them, intimidate them. These so called tough bunch punk wussie kids- cannot even dare mess around with other community kids they fear them ie- tamil, asian, blacks because they know they will be nailed to the wall, will get their butts handed to them on a platter because other community kids won't stand their bullyism. They have no desire to show their muscle for righteousness (protect the weak, defend women, children, fight against drug/rapist/murders).

One of my thai co worker told me at lunch, punjabis are safest neighbour to live with because they always fight among each other, i was utterly mortified at this smart arse (somewhat true/have element of truth) comment so i down played it with saying other communities have similiar issues but his comment made me think thats how others see us.

Also, only when one gets to Naad they get all the wisdom and knowledge

In my experience, one doesn't have to go through naad(shabad naad-higher portal) to get all wisdom and knowledge but rather connect directly to source of shabad-naad- which is shabad gian itself which is live not dead but LIVE/ALIVE/ETERNAL shabad gian pure unconditioned chaitain(consciousness/awareness). Shabad naad(sound) itself ultimately no matter how profound is subject of five elements- sound- subtle five elements sukhsham maya but since shabad naad is beyond sargun mind- thoughts it gives seeker all the knowledge and wisdom.

Shabad gian- pure consciousness/awareness JOT-pure divine knowledge is already common matrix behind of all experiences-everyone can relate to it, as everyone embodied it, live it, put together, common matrix of every one of us as everything is done in awareness. Everyone is born with it, its not like one has to try so hard in order to get to shabad gian, its live, in experience every moment behind every thought, source of every moment behind of every moment, source of every thought, source of experience, source of desires, source of feeling good, source of all experiences.

I had experiences which were very profound cannot describe them here nor i have any desire to do as i already know they are part of transient relative reality via bibek, any ABSOLUTE/Turiya endures-

Only IKONGKAR- Absolute Truth endures and remains and in that Absolute there are no relative realities its all ONE non dual advait-Absoulte so whatever is seen or experienced is not separate reality its not seperate as relative reality but as one Absolute-ikongkar

Eh akhar kirh jaingaie, vo akhar inn mein nahi | Akhar Dristh Man Jaita Nanak Parbhram Nirlaipa ||

Beautiful shabad below spoken from ABSOLUTE REALITY AND TRUTH:

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=736&punjabi=t&id=31585#l31585

Great thread, thanks for sharing

This is one of their deepest sutra-heart sutra to explain state of budda nature- bhramgyani

http://www.sanghalou.org/oldsitebackup/heart_suttra.htm

The Heart Suttra

These core tenets of Buddhism are expressed in the teaching known as the Heart of the Great Wisdom Sutra.

Although it is the shortest of all the sutras, containing only 632 characters in the traditional Chinese translation, it explains the essence of Buddhism, which is KU, or Emptiness. The meaning is essentially that by letting go of your preconceived notions, opinions, and attachments, you can become open to all the wonders of our life.

All things are empty. This is the realization of nothingness. But, emptiness or nothingness does not just mean nothing. It means not being attached to anything; especially your own perceptions and ideas so that you can see your life clearly.

The Heart Suttra:

Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva was moving in the deep course of wisdom which

has gone beyond. He looked down from on high and saw but five skandhas*

which, in their own being, were empty. Here, O Sariputra, Form is

Emptiness, Emptiness is Form; Form does not differ from Emptiness,

Emptiness does not differ from Form; whatever is Empty, that is Form,

whatever is Form that is Empty. The same is true of feelings, perceptions,

impulses and consciousness. O Sariputra all dharmas are marked with

Emptiness, they have no beginning and no end, they are neither imperfect nor

perfect, neither deficient nor complete. Therefore O Sariputra, in emptiness

there is no form, no feeling, no perception, no name, no concepts, no

knowledge. No eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind; no

forms, sounds, smells, tastes, touchables or object of the mind, no sight

organ, no hearing organ and so forth to no mind consciousness element; no

ignorance or extinction of ignorance, no decay and death, no extinction of

decay and death. There is no suffering, no origination, no stopping, no path,

no cognition, no attainment, nor anything to attain. There is nothing to

accomplish and so Bodhisattvas can rely on the Perfection of Wisdom

without trouble. Being without trouble they are not afraid, having overcome

anything upsetting they attain Nirvana.

All Buddhas who appear in the three periods, fully Awake to the utmost

right and perfect enlightenment because they have relied on the Perfection

of Wisdom. Therefore, one should know the Perfection of Wisdom is the great mantra, is the unequaled mantra, the destroyer of suffering.

Gate, Gate, Paragate, Para Sam gate Bodhi svaha

Gate, Gate, Paragate, Para Sam gate Bodhi svaha

Gate, Gate, Paragate, Para Sam gate Bodhisvaha.

Bodhi Svaha

English:

Gone, Gone, Gone beyond Gone utterly beyond

Gone, Gone, Gone beyond Gone utterly beyond

Gone, Gone, Gone beyond Gone utterly beyond

Oh what an Awakening

*The five skandas are the five components of any individual: body, perceptions, feelings, mental formations and consciousness.)

Gate means gone. Gone from suffering to the liberation of suffering. Gone from forgetfulness to mindfulness. Gone from duality into non-duality.

Gate gate means gone, gone.

Paragate means gone all the way to the other shore. So this mantra is said in a very strong way. Gone, gone, gone all the way over.

In Parasamgate sam means everyone, the sangha, the entire community of beings. Everyone gone over to the other shore.

Bodhi is the light inside, enlightenment, or awakening. You see it and the vision of reality liberates you.

And svaha is a cry of joy or excitement, like "Welcome!" or "Hallelujah!" "Gone, gone, gone all the way over, everyone gone to the other shore, enlightenment, svaha !"

No Coming No Going

No coming, no going

No after, no before

I hold you close to me,

I release you to be so free

Because I am in you, and you are in me

Because I am in you, and you are in me.

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Ground luminosity (Tib. གཞིའི་འོད་གསལ་, Wyl. gzhi'i 'od gsal) —

Sogyal Rinpoche writes:

In Dzogchen the fundamental, inherent nature of everything is called the "Ground Luminosity" or the "Mother Luminosity." This pervades our whole experience, and is therefore the inherent nature of the thoughts andemotions that arise in our minds as well, although we do not recognize it.[...] What happens at the moment of death, for everyone, is this: The Ground Luminosity dawns in vast splendor, and with it brings an opportunity for total liberation—if, and only if, you have learned how to recognize it.^[1]Footnotes

1. Jump up↑ The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, pages 165-166.

Alternative Translations

• basic luminosity
• clear light of the ground

Further Reading

• Sogyal Rinpoche, The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, revised and updated edition (Harper San Francisco, 2002), Ch. 16 'The Ground'.

See Also

• Two luminosities

Source

RigpaWiki:Ground luminosity

~Gurbani Sidhant Vichar ~~ Sant gyani mohan singh ji bhindranwale - senior student of sant gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale

Highly Recommended...!!!

http://www.gurbanisidhantvichaar.in/

Relax guys, please make my job easier by following forum rules avoid personal attacks against each other.

Making this sticky as its imperative initially people having clear perception and goal.

I start reading on and off priceless 800 page teeka of japji sahib by sant kartar singh bhindranwale/sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale:

Awesome bro, please keep sharing more of these gems.

it should be fine now. Please re-try.

Ok let me look into that.

Done bro, let me know if you need anything else.

Fookat Karam = Any karam that makes you forget Naam.

Interesting point outright sikh.

We should conclusively realize what is our jot saroop by contemplating on Naam and Naam gian- inner self- (Jagad Jot Awarness Light) to the point, individuality dies in naam/shabad slowly it will die forever (die before you die) only thing will remain as Jagad Jot*.

Gyan Parbodh ਪਾਧੜੀ ਛੰਦ ॥
पाधड़ी छंद ॥
PAADHRAI STANZA

ਤ੍ਵ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
त्व प्रसादि ॥
BY THY GRACE

ਦਿਨ ਅਜਬ ਏਕ ਆਤਮਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਅਨਭਉ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਹਦ ਅਕਾਮ ॥
दिन अजब एक आतमा राम ॥ अनभउ सरूप अनहद अकाम ॥
On a day the curious soul (asked): The infinite and Desire less Lord, the Intuitive Entity.
ਅਨਛਿੱਜ ਤੇਜ ਆਜਾਨ ਬਾਹੁ ॥ ਰਾਜਾਨ ਰਾਜੁ ਸਾਹਾਨ ਸਾਹੁ ॥੧॥੧੨੬॥
अनछि्ज तेज आजान बाहु ॥ राजान राजु साहान साहु ॥१॥१२६॥
Of everlasting Glory and long-armed; the King of kings and Emperor of emperors.1.126.

ਉਚਰਿਓ ਆਤਮਾ ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਸੰਗ ॥ ਉਤਭੁਜ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਭੰਗ ॥
उचरिओ आतमा परातमा संग ॥ उतभुज सरूप अबिगत अभंग ॥
The soul said to the Higher Soul; the Germinating Entity, Unmanifested and Invincible;

ਇਹ ਕਉਨ ਆਹਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਸਰੂਪ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਅਮਿਤ ਤੇਜ ਅਤਿਭੂਤਿ ਬਿਭੂਤਿ ॥੨॥੧੨੭॥
इह कउन आहि आतमा सरूप ॥ जिह अमित तेज अतिभूति बिभूति ॥२॥१२७॥
What is this Soul Entity? Which hath indelible glory and which is of queer substance."2.127.

ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਬਾਚ ॥
परातमा बाच ॥
The Higher Soul said:

ਯਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਆਹਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਅਮਿਤ ਤੇਜਿ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਕਾਮ ॥
यहि ब्रहम आहि आतमा राम ॥ जिह अमित तेजि अबिगत अकाम ॥
This Soul is itself Brahman;" Who is of Everlasting Glory and is Unmanisfested and Desireless.

ਜਿਹ ਭੇਦ ਭਰਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਮ ਕਾਲ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਰਬਾ ਦਿਆਲ ॥੩॥੧੨੮॥
जिह भेद भरम नहीं करम काल ॥ जिह सत्र मित्र सरबा दिआल ॥३॥१२८॥
Who is indiscriminate, actionless and deathless; Who hath no enemy and friend and is Merciful towards all.3.1228.

ਡੋਬਿਓ ਨ ਡੁਬੈ ਸੋਖਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਕਟਿਓ ਨ ਕਟੈ ਨ ਬਾਰਿਯੋ ਬਰਾਇ ॥
डोबिओ न डुबै सोखिओ न जाइ ॥ कटिओ न कटै न बारियो बराइ ॥
It is neither drowned nor soaked; It can neither be chopped nor burnt.

ਛਿਜੈ ਨ ਨੈਕ ਸਤ ਸਸਤ੍ਰ ਪਾਤ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਤ ਪਾਤ ॥੪॥੧੨੯॥
छिजै न नैक सत ससत्र पात ॥ जिह सत्र मित्र नहीं जात पात ॥४॥१२९॥
It cannot be assailed by the blow of weapon; It hath neither an enemy nor a friend, neither caste not lineage.4.129.

ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਹੰਸ ਸਤ ਸਤ ਪ੍ਰਘਾਇ ॥ ਛਿਜੈ ਨ ਨੈਕ ਖੰਡਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
सत्र सहंस सत सत प्रघाइ ॥ छिजै न नैक खंडिओ न जाइ ॥
By the blow of thousands of enemies, It is neither wasted away nor fragmented.

ਨਹੀ ਜਰੈ ਨੈਕ ਪਾਵਕ ਮੰਝਾਰ ॥ ਬੋਰੈ ਨ ਸਿੰਧ ਸੋਖੈ ਨ ਬਯਾਰ ॥੫॥੧੩੦॥
नही जरै नैक पावक मंझार ॥ बोरै न सिंध सोखै न बयार ॥५॥१३०॥
It is not burnt even in the fire. It is neither drowned in the sea nor soaked by the air.5.13